The model is fine, just not the identity of the Identifier resource(s).  That can't be the same as the identifier itself, otherwise you get the collision demonstrated.  In RDF, I don't think you can give provenance information about the creation of the URI without a blank node or other indirection, as the URI doesn't identify itself, it identifies the resource.

The first rule of Identifier Club is that you can't talk about Identifier Club :)



On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Ford, Kevin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

To try this from a different angle…

 

Let’s say one wanted to capture information about an identifier itself.  Not the thing the identifier identifies, but the identifier itself.

 

So, for example, ISSNs are issued by specific agencies.  Bowker, in the example below, manages ISBNs.  So, the identifiers themselves might have metadata associated with them (when they were created, who applied for it, etc).  If Bowker or an ISSN agency wanted to publish linked data about the identifier, how might you go about modelling that?

 

Yours,

Kevin



 

From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Sanderson
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 3:56 PM


To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] BibFrame and Linked Data: Identifiers

 

 

I have exactly the same concern with the proposed schema.org Identifier as with the bibframe Identifier. 


If <http://bowker.com/identifiers/isbn/9780553479430> is an identifier for a resource X,
and <http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38264520> is also an identifier the same resource X,

and <http://bowker.com/identifiers/isbn/9780553479430> is a schema:Identifier, 

and <http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/38264520> is a schema:Book,
then resource X is both a schema:Book and a schema:Identifier at the same time.

Which is clearly nonsense.

Basically ... don't do that. Please. 

 

Rob

 

 

On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Mark K. Ehlert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Young,Jeff (OR) <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


UmljaGFyZCB3cm90ZSB1cCB0aGUgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudzMub3JnL2NvbW11bml0eS9zY2hlbWFi
aWJleC93aWtpL0lkZW50aWZpZXIsIGJ1dCBJIGRvbid0IHJlbWVtYmVyIG11Y2ggZGlzY3Vzc2lv...

 

For those who can't read Jeff's response, here it is:

Richard wrote up the https://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Identifier, but I don't remember much discussion of it.

The abandoned "info" URI effort leaves me skeptical that non-HTTP URIs can be systematically described in general. I'm also skeptical that individual identifiers of any kind need to be described inline with instance data.

http://info-uri.info/

Jeff

 


--

Mark K. Ehlert                 Minitex
Coordinator                    University of Minnesota
Digitization, Cataloging &     15 Andersen Library
  Metadata Education (DCME)    222 21st Avenue South
Phone: 612-624-0805            Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439
<http://www.minitex.umn.edu/>



 

--

Rob Sanderson

Technology Collaboration Facilitator

Digital Library Systems and Services

Stanford, CA 94305




--
Rob Sanderson
Technology Collaboration Facilitator
Digital Library Systems and Services
Stanford, CA 94305