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Thanks, Rob.  I have suggested both of these in emails in the past week, 
although perhaps they got lost in their threads. Taking them in reverse 
order:

2. OCLC is already doing suggestion #2 through its use of schema.org 
based on its MARC data. Obviously, a more "data friendly" set of data 
would make that more efficacious. If we had a "record" that allowed the 
storage of identifiers in concert with the display strings, then it 
would be easier to export markup that facilitates linking. I suppose 
BIBFRAME could have been that record, but it has taken a very different 
approach.

1. I've contemplated the "catalog 'record' as document" concept at 
various times. True separation of the display from the coded semantics 
strikes me as dangerous, for them getting out of sync. As with the #2 
option, there would need to be hooks between the display forms and the 
"data forms" so that some automated processes could exist that don't 
allow one to change without checking the other.

In either case, I come to the conclusion that we COULD provide this 
radical view, but not with the models and records that we have today. So 
this would entail the development of a new model that supports the 
solution. I also have said that we probably cannot achieve this with the 
cataloging rules that we have today. Essentially, new rules would need 
to take into account the coordination between display and 
"data/semantics." The current cataloging rules are still overly involved 
in display and ignore machine processing functions to support retrieval, 
comparison, and data mining.

kc

On 8/1/14, 9:18 AM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> In my experience, RDF and Linked Data can do both presentation based 
> information (eg here is content to present directly to the user, 
> without semantics eg [1]) and it can do semantic, descriptive 
> information (here is a rich description of the resource, say a book or 
> annotation eg [2]) but both at once is very challenging without simply 
> repeating everything in a for-machines way and a for-humans way as per 
> the current titleStatement, providerStatement, and one assumes 
> authorStatement, subjectStatement, etc.
>
> Here are two radical ideas, for which the boat has probably long since 
> sailed, but I'll throw them out there regardless.
>
> 1. Don't try to mix them up.  Have two completely separate 
> descriptions, where one is intended for humans to read, and the other 
> is intended for machines to reason upon and search.  A machine will 
> only ever throw a transcribed string through to the user, so make it 
> easy for them to do that by separating the non-semantic information 
> from the semantic information, with links between them.
>
> 2.  Mix them up using the appropriate technology: HTML + RDFA. 
>  Instead of thinking about triples for everything, instead create the 
> HTML that you want the user to see.  Then annotate that HTML with RDFA 
> properties to add the semantics into the record (and really a record 
> now, not a graph).  This way there's only one record to maintain that 
> has both, but uses presentation technology for presenting things to 
> users, and semantic technology for enabling machines to understand the 
> information.
>
> Basically -- use the right tools for the job.  RDF has a hard time 
> representing transcriptions outside of non-semantic strings because it 
> was never intended to do that.  Order in RDF is a complete pain, 
> because a graph is inherently unordered, but there are very real use 
> cases that require order.  On the other hand, RDF is fantastic for 
> controlled data as that is precisely its intended usage.  We should 
> make the most appropriate use of the tools that we have available to 
> us, rather than treating everything as a nail.
>
> Best,
>
> Rob
>
> [1].  The IIIF Presentation API is focused on this approach of giving 
> information intended for a client to display, while still being useful 
> linked data by referencing existing semantic descriptions and 
> following REST and JSON-LD. http://iiif.io/api/presentation/2.0/
> [2].  The Open Annotation work is a rich data model that provides 
> semantics for web annotation, but says almost nothing about 
> presentation. http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/
>
>
>
> -- 
> Rob Sanderson
> Technology Collaboration Facilitator
> Digital Library Systems and Services
> Stanford, CA 94305

-- 
Karen Coyle
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m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet