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RDA subelement 2.8.4, Publisher's name, is different from the element 21.3, Publisher. The former is recorded from the manifestation, while the latter can be recorded as an identifier or an access point (18.4). RDA 18.5.1.1 says "The defined scope of a relationship element provides a general indication of the relationship between a resource and a person, family, or corporate body associated with the resource (e.g., creator, owner). Relationship designators provide more specific information about the nature of the relationship (e.g., author, donor)." Publisher is one of those relationship elements, so adding a relationship designator "publisher" would do nothing to provide more specific information about the nature of the relationship than the name of the element already does. Of course, MARC is completely inadequate for expressing RDA in its intended form. The mappings in the RDA Toolkit map 21.3 to fields 700-711, where it is mushed in with all kinds of other relationships. Therefore the PCC has allowed the use of element names as relationship designators. ------------------------------------------ John Hostage Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services Langdell Hall 194 Harvard Law School Library Cambridge, MA 02138 [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) ________________________________ From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Deborah J. Leslie [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 14:36 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Relation ship designator: corporate body Can someone help me understand why the name of an RDA element can't also be a relationship designator? The publisher element contains recorded data, whereas the relationship designator is attached to a controlled access point. What am I not getting? Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | [log in to unmask] | 202.675-0369 | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www. folger.edu From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wilson, Pete Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2014 14:25 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Relation ship designator: corporate body Thanks, Mark. I think I had had at least an inkling of the difference between relationship elements and relationship designators, but I guess it failed me here. Still, it seems to me that the language in RDA is scaring us away more than necessary from the option of using the element as a designator when appropriate, as MARC sometimes makes necessary. Pete Wilson Vanderbilt University From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark K. Ehlert Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:13 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Relation ship designator: corporate body Wilson, Pete <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: I don't understand why there is no relationship designator "publisher," though. It would duplicate the relationship element under 21.3. Those relationships listed under App. I fine-tune the many of the broader relationships listed in RDA 19-22. So if someone wanted to stick with Chapter 19's "Creator" relationship, then $e creator. If someone wanted to go two, three, four steps more specific, they'd use one of the designators under App. I.2.1, like "author." Is it assumed that if an entity does nothing but publish a resource, it does not need its own access point? Chapters 19-22 are about (in MARC) tracing at all levels of the WEMI spectrum, from creators to curators to others in between. The definition quoted by Ben--"A person, family or corporate body issuing a work, such as an official organ of the body" (I'm not sure where this is in RDA)... In Appendix I.2.2, for the "issuing body" designator. -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Digitization, Cataloging & 15 Andersen Library Metadata Education (DCME) 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 <http://www.minitex.umn.edu/> "Experience is by industry achieved // And perfected by the swift course of time." -- Shakespeare, "Two Gentlemen of Verona," Act I, scene iii