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That was Biz Markie who sampled O'Sullivan, not De La Soul.

-Tim

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> I meant to also say, if you appropriate someone's material, get their
> permission, then pay the damn royalties.
>
> Gilbert O'Sullivan did not want his song used in a rap context, that was
> the crux of his victorious lawsuit (aside from the fact that De La Soul had
> stolen it without asking). An author of copyrighted material has some
> rights to refuse usage in other works. One instance I can think of is say I
> wrote a hymn and some sort of "gangsta" rapper asked permission to use part
> of my hymn words in a song about doing something decidedly un-religious.
> Logically, I'd refuse, and I should have that right.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]
> >
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] maybe the end of ripoff "songwriting"
>
>
>  I think there's a difference between referencing a song or melody and
>> outright ripping it off. Sampling is, and has been decided legally is,
>> outright ripping off others' work, and thus those people must be
>> compensated. Referencing -- using a riff or a run of notes, or taking a
>> lyric phrase, for instances -- is more of a gray area. It'll be interesting
>> to see how this Marvin Gaye descision ends up in the courts, and whether it
>> ends up being a Supreme Court test case. I think Robin Thicke/Pharell's
>> unoriginal tune more referenced than sampled that Marvin Gaye song, but
>> it's worth looking at the instructions to the jury, because they did get
>> relatively thick into the copyright weeds in deciding the case.
>>
>> David's reference to Bach is interesting, because I think Bach and
>> Beethoven and perhaps Dvorak and other composers who recycled "folk" songs
>> and melodies may have ended up in court under US Copyright law in 2015.
>> Does Beethoven's 9th outright "sample" large parts of a German drinking
>> song? Isn't that exactly what got De La Soul in trouble with Gilbert
>> O'Sullivan? It would be interesting to hear one of the copyright experts'
>> opine on that comparison.
>>
>> My disdain for the Thicke/Pharell situation is, if you can't come up with
>> an original song, just credit the originator and pay the damn royalties on
>> your hit. There's no shame in making a career covering other people's
>> material. Look at all the crooners out there, look at many Country music
>> icons, look at Sinatra, Presley, Ronstadt, etc etc. It's sleazy to
>> appropriate and not give credit, in any creative endeavor. I look at Led
>> Zeppelin ripping off Son House, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters and others
>> with equal disdain, even though I happen to like their music a heck of a
>> lot better than Robin Thicke.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] maybe the end of ripoff "songwriting"
>>
>>
>>  Grandpa Jones' tune -- and incidentally, I just delivered a talk on him
>>> at
>>> the Library Wednesday -- was his hit "Old Rattler" in the 1947 King
>>> recording.
>>> Pete Seeger's was something called "Old Gray Mule" from an album "Birds,
>>> Beasts, Bugs and Little Fishes" that Rebecca had known since
>>> childhood, but I'd never heard. I think Pete Seeger's recording is later,
>>> but not much so. One thing both have in common is that they were big
>>> fans of Cousin Emmy.
>>>
>>> Dave Lewis
>>> Hamilton, OH
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Paul Stamler <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 3/16/2015 9:31 AM, David Lewis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Just last night Rebecca pointed out to me an instance
>>>>> where Grandpa Jones and Pete Seeger used exactly the same musical
>>>>> setting
>>>>> for two different songs. Which of them wrote it? Neither of them; it
>>>>> was
>>>>> something that was out there before either of them and they simply
>>>>> fitted
>>>>> what they
>>>>> knew to lyrics that were also around.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Just out of curiosity, what were the Grandpa Jones & Pete Seeger songs?
>>>>
>>>>  Old hymns also tend to be profligate
>>>>
>>>>  in terms of what they are set to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Read the Sacred Harp hymnal, and you'll find the same words set to half
>>>> a
>>>> dozen tunes.
>>>>
>>>> The crossover between "sacred" and "profane" was a big deal; for
>>>> example,
>>>> "Come Ye That Fear the Lord" used the tune of "Captain Kidd". And my
>>>> favorite example, Alfred Karnes's use of the tune from "Don't Let Your
>>>> Deal
>>>> Go Down" with the lyrics to "The Promised Land" (rec. 1927 for Victor).
>>>>
>>>> Peace,
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>