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A popular phrase in the NY Phil as PB was about to replace LB: "The ice-man comith."

"It is often said that Boulez has 'a terrific ear.' But Boulez's terrific ear extends only to pitches and to some extent to intonation. There are many other things which Boulez's ear does not hear." - Gunther Schuller, The Complete Conductor

My recollection is that the 4D thing utilized a Yamaha digital board, modified for DG, which I think maxed out at 48k. One of the capabilities they remarked on was the ability to delay spot mics relative to the mains, giving control over phase problems and some creative choices in building the soundstage. I use that idea all the time when mixing with DAW software.

DG seemed to always pursue a smooth, homogenous sound, not unlike Herby-the-K's orchestral approach. Many early stereo releases placed you in a nice relationship between the forest (a view of the whole ensemble) and the trees (intimate detail), and retained the energetic feeling of the performance. But what I've come to expect is sound that is to my sense too smooth and short on that spark of life, whatever its perspective on the ensemble. Still, it is a creative choice that was very successful in the marketplace. And some things, like LB's CSO Shostakovich set is spectacular.

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2015 8:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] SACD "surprise"

John is now firmly on record as NOT being a fan of Pierre Boulez! ;)

Not to boil John's blood further, but this article about Boulez and his influence on some conductors and composers was in the NYTimes last weekend:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/arts/music/musicians-discuss-the-influence-of-pierre-boulez.html

I actually reserved the original DGG CD from the local library system. I want to see if it really sounds as far-away as those sound samples on Arkiv. What I heard of Firebird wasn't so bad as far as pacing. I prefer LISTENING to something more fast and furious like Dorati/LSO, but I bet Boulez's approach is more how it's done as a ballet that people can actually dance to without breaking apart onstage.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] SACD "surprise"


> An even better question to ask is this--with so many excellent Stravinsky
> recordings to chose from, why bother with this one at all?
>
> I have to admit that the cover is sort of cool, but otherwise I would
> quickly gravitate to a more masterful conductor's recording.
>
> Best,
> John Haley
>
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> This appears to be some kind of digital fraud.
>>
>> Look at the original CD details:
>> http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2589
>> The album was recorded in 1992. Exactly what high-resolution digital
>> recording system existed in 1992? DGG was using a Studer system that
>> operated at most at 48kHz/16-bit. There is an outside possibility that they
>> were running analog tape backups, but I don't think so based on articles
>> I've read about this "4D" thing they were touting.
>>
>> The MOST RESOLUTION POSSIBLE from this recording is whatever was the
>> original recording medium. Up-converting it DOES NOT ADD MORE RESOLUTION.
>> It may change the sound in some way that some people prefer, some sort of
>> euphony involved with conversion to DSD and DSD-to-analog, perhaps.
>>
>> This sort of thing makes the Japanese reissue guys look a little batty.
>> The other one that's really odd is a series called something like "BluDisc"
>> that seems to suggest the CDs are made on the same equipment as BluRay
>> discs and thus have "more precise" pits and lands. I've seen no scientific
>> presentations or papers anywhere suggesting this offers any audible
>> improvements. For what it's worth, I was loaned one of these CDs of a
>> Mercury album, apparently made from the same digital master or a
>> bit-perfect copy, as the CDs produced by the plant in Germany. As I
>> suspected, no analysis software I could find revealed ANY DIFFERENCE in the
>> CDs, and they sounded identical, to my ears. More importantly, they both
>> ripped bit-identical files using dBPowerAmp's CD ripper with Accurip. I
>> will say that it's possible that these "BluDics" are easier to read and
>> thus perhaps produce fewer corrected errors in some inferior CD players.
>>
>> It's also worth reading the review included on the ArkivMusic descriptor
>> page linked above. This is one of those DGG way-distant recordings where
>> the orchestra sounds like it's a football field away from the mics. That
>> whole "4D" process was never really detailed by DGG, it was apparently just
>> a full integration of DGG recording techniques with Studer digital
>> equipment, and was the subject of some mocking, especially by British hi-fi
>> and pro-audio magazines in the 90s. To my ears, I don't care what digital
>> system they were using as much as I care that everything sounds like it was
>> recorded across a large space from the music, or in an echo chamber. Very
>> few DGG recording sound very detailed or intimate, to my ears. They make
>> the listener a spectator from a distance rather than a participant in the
>> music.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Long" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 5:52 PM
>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] SACD "surprise"
>>
>>
>>
>>  I get promotional e-mails from www.elusivedisc.com, mostly about vinyl.
>>> The prices for the 45-rpm issues (about $50) are beyond my ability to pay
>>> 99% of the time.  Now I see they are offering Esoteric SACD reissues for
>>> $65!  See <
>>> www.elusivedisc.com/Stravinsky-The-Firebird-Fireworks-SACD/productinfo/
>>> ESOSA90118/&utm_source=email&utm_medium=special
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Has anyone been impressed by this (and other) Esoteric SACD reissues?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>