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Ross,

we'll see about that :)

An arbitrary SPARQL query hundreds of lines long might be challenging for a
triplestore, but a DESCRIBE on a specific URI is not. So why not use a
triplestore in this case? I find your reasoning backwards.

I think it comes down to the scale of the data. Does anyone have any
estimates from BIBFRAME projects in terms of triples?
On Apr 10, 2015 2:01 AM, "Ross Singer" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I would disagree with the general line of thinking "BIBFRAME is RDF, so
> use a triplestore".  The current crop of triplestores work fine for
> performing arbitrary queries over data, but (generally) do not (easily)
> scale well.  The question is, are arbitrary queries over all of the data
> really that important?  What are actually the usage patterns of how the
> data is accessed?
>
> My gut feeling is that for the actual day-to-day usage of a library
> system, the need to perform ad-hoc sparql queries is fairly minimal and
> that 99% of the time the system will be doing (the functional equivalent
> of) DESCRIBEs on a particular URI and selected objects associated with the
> subject of the DESCRIBE.  For that sort of use case, there's little need
> for a triple store or graph database.
>
> I suspect that in reality, you'll see production solutions lean more
> towards databases like PostgreSQL which allow for some of the schema-less
> needs of RDF, but also have the traditional RDBMS model to use when
> appropriate, but, honestly, until we know what exactly the usage patterns
> are, it's all rather academic.
>
> -Ross.
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:01 PM Trail, Nate <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Well, its rdf data, therefore triples, therefore, use a triplestore.
>> However, it’s also got lots of nice descriptions, which are not easily
>> searched in a triplestore, therefore, use elasticsearch or solr or some
>> other indexer also. If you wanted, you could put it into a relational
>> database, but I don’t know what it’d gain you, unless you only had access
>> to a relational db.  I dn’t know about library data not belonging in a
>> relational database. Most ILSs probably have their marc data in Oracle; the
>> difference is in how how you store it in-house; no one should care if you
>> have  a blob of marc or have shredded it out into different fields in a
>> database, if you get the job done.
>>
>> RDF can be serialized in lots of ways, to make it easier to ingest into
>> your favorite store: rdfxml, jsonld, nt, ttl…
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jon Miller
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 07, 2015 4:37 PM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [BIBFRAME] How is Bibframe data stored?
>>
>>
>>
>> So, the thought is not using a relational database for storing the data?
>> I keep hearing that relational database is inappropriate for storing
>> library data, but, I don’t see how library data is any different than any
>> other kind of data that has no problem being stored relationally.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [
>> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf
>> Of *Trail, Nate
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:05 PM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [BIBFRAME] How is Bibframe data stored?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon,
>>
>>
>>
>> On the bibframe site, if you take the classs bf:Work for example:
>>
>> http://bibframe.org/vocab/Work.html
>>
>> It tells you the properties from it’s parent “Resource” class, plus the
>> properties used in the class, plus those that are unconstrained in domain.
>> Is that not where you were looking?
>>
>>
>>
>> Storage of bibframe data is up to implementers. Several seem to be
>> putting the data into a nosql database and using elastic search or solr,
>> and into a triplestore for sparql queries on the relationships among
>> nodes.  LD4P and the Library of Congress are starting up pilot projects to
>> flesh this all out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>> Nate Trail
>>
>> Network Development & MARC Standards Office
>>
>> LS/ABA/NDMSO
>>
>> LA308, Mail Stop 4402
>>
>> Library of Congress
>>
>> Washington DC 20540
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [
>> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf
>> Of *Jon Miller
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:57 PM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* [BIBFRAME] How is Bibframe data stored?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m wondering how Bibframe data is stored? I’m wondering if anyone has
>> thought about defining mappings between it and a relational database or at
>> least an object oriented programming model that could be manipulated
>> easily? Does such a thing exist, or are ILS implementers left to figure
>> this out on their own? How is a programmer expected to work with the data?
>> XML parser, then, build your own programming model? On bibframe.org
>> there is a list of classes and properties. If you click on a class, it
>> takes you to a once sentence description of the class. However, it doesn’t
>> enumerate the properties that are applicable to that class. Shouldn’t there
>> be a list of the properties for the class?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>