Ross, we'll see about that :) An arbitrary SPARQL query hundreds of lines long might be challenging for a triplestore, but a DESCRIBE on a specific URI is not. So why not use a triplestore in this case? I find your reasoning backwards. I think it comes down to the scale of the data. Does anyone have any estimates from BIBFRAME projects in terms of triples? On Apr 10, 2015 2:01 AM, "Ross Singer" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I would disagree with the general line of thinking "BIBFRAME is RDF, so > use a triplestore". The current crop of triplestores work fine for > performing arbitrary queries over data, but (generally) do not (easily) > scale well. The question is, are arbitrary queries over all of the data > really that important? What are actually the usage patterns of how the > data is accessed? > > My gut feeling is that for the actual day-to-day usage of a library > system, the need to perform ad-hoc sparql queries is fairly minimal and > that 99% of the time the system will be doing (the functional equivalent > of) DESCRIBEs on a particular URI and selected objects associated with the > subject of the DESCRIBE. For that sort of use case, there's little need > for a triple store or graph database. > > I suspect that in reality, you'll see production solutions lean more > towards databases like PostgreSQL which allow for some of the schema-less > needs of RDF, but also have the traditional RDBMS model to use when > appropriate, but, honestly, until we know what exactly the usage patterns > are, it's all rather academic. > > -Ross. > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:01 PM Trail, Nate <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Well, its rdf data, therefore triples, therefore, use a triplestore. >> However, it’s also got lots of nice descriptions, which are not easily >> searched in a triplestore, therefore, use elasticsearch or solr or some >> other indexer also. If you wanted, you could put it into a relational >> database, but I don’t know what it’d gain you, unless you only had access >> to a relational db. I dn’t know about library data not belonging in a >> relational database. Most ILSs probably have their marc data in Oracle; the >> difference is in how how you store it in-house; no one should care if you >> have a blob of marc or have shredded it out into different fields in a >> database, if you get the job done. >> >> RDF can be serialized in lots of ways, to make it easier to ingest into >> your favorite store: rdfxml, jsonld, nt, ttl… >> >> >> >> Nate >> >> >> >> *From:* Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [mailto: >> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jon Miller >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 07, 2015 4:37 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [BIBFRAME] How is Bibframe data stored? >> >> >> >> So, the thought is not using a relational database for storing the data? >> I keep hearing that relational database is inappropriate for storing >> library data, but, I don’t see how library data is any different than any >> other kind of data that has no problem being stored relationally. >> >> >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> *From:* Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [ >> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf >> Of *Trail, Nate >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:05 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [BIBFRAME] How is Bibframe data stored? >> >> >> >> Jon, >> >> >> >> On the bibframe site, if you take the classs bf:Work for example: >> >> http://bibframe.org/vocab/Work.html >> >> It tells you the properties from it’s parent “Resource” class, plus the >> properties used in the class, plus those that are unconstrained in domain. >> Is that not where you were looking? >> >> >> >> Storage of bibframe data is up to implementers. Several seem to be >> putting the data into a nosql database and using elastic search or solr, >> and into a triplestore for sparql queries on the relationships among >> nodes. LD4P and the Library of Congress are starting up pilot projects to >> flesh this all out. >> >> >> >> Nate >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> >> Nate Trail >> >> Network Development & MARC Standards Office >> >> LS/ABA/NDMSO >> >> LA308, Mail Stop 4402 >> >> Library of Congress >> >> Washington DC 20540 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [ >> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf >> Of *Jon Miller >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:57 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* [BIBFRAME] How is Bibframe data stored? >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I’m wondering how Bibframe data is stored? I’m wondering if anyone has >> thought about defining mappings between it and a relational database or at >> least an object oriented programming model that could be manipulated >> easily? Does such a thing exist, or are ILS implementers left to figure >> this out on their own? How is a programmer expected to work with the data? >> XML parser, then, build your own programming model? On bibframe.org >> there is a list of classes and properties. If you click on a class, it >> takes you to a once sentence description of the class. However, it doesn’t >> enumerate the properties that are applicable to that class. Shouldn’t there >> be a list of the properties for the class? >> >> >> >> Jon >> >> >> >