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Tom,

Firstly, thanks. All of the Tempo stuff burned up in 1963, so apart from
the Jazz Man session and possibly the Decca recording with Russ Morgan, I'm
willing to bet that nothing
from the master space on the entire mono LP part of this list is extant. A
sobering thought.

Secondly -- Joe doesn't have a lot of competition for the title, and I
think in terms of players who came after him, it fits. I sincerely doubt
that any of them had no contact with
Joe's sound and style, though some show less evidence of its influence than
others. Stuff Smith seems to be the other big, primary "father" if you are
judging from later players:
Ray Nance and Jerry Goodman (Mahavishnu Orchestra) tend to follow Stuff
more than Venuti, though they were both electric violin players, like Stuff
was. He made his first sides
with the Alphonse Trent band in 1928 for Gennett.

That said, there wasn't a jazz band from before 1923 larger than one of the
"fabulous fives" that didn't have a fiddle player. The unknown soloist
nearest the horn on Victor mx.
B-14434 (Europe's Society Orchestra, "Castle Walk" 2-10-1914) does get off
some fiddle breaks that are pretty jazzy. And Albert Jockers, one of the
Jockers Brothers, also
made some solos that go just that bit beyond ragtime playing into a
primitive form of jazz, such as in "Full O' Pep" (Columbia A2708,
1-28-1919). Eddie South may have recorded
for the first time before Venuti, as the orchestra to which he belonged,
the Alabamians, made a master for Gennett in Chicago 5-8-1924. It went down
in the books as "rejected,"
but I suspect it may have been issued as a one-sided Personal Record. If
so, it has never been found.

Anthony Barnett would probably be the best person to put that question to,
but these are my humble observations.

Dave Lewis
Hamilton, OH

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 1:44 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Good question.  A lot of pop bandleaders and orchestra leaders were trained
> as violinists first.  Good e.g., Xavier Cugat.
>
> Best,
> John Haley
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > By the way, potential ARSC Journal article -- was Venuti really the
> > pioneer of using a violin in jazz music? His first recording was in
> 1926, a
> > good bit after jazz music had bubbled up in New Orleans. Fiddle players
> > were all over the south, so did someone else put a fiddle with jazz music
> > earlier? And record it?
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" <
> [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 11:34 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] A Labor of Love
> >
> >
> >  Dave,
> >>
> >> Dumb question I asked about the Mosaic box, it's right there in your
> >> references!
> >>
> >> Good job, very thorough. You got the Grand Award recordings, which were
> >> made at Fine Sound. The Whiteman Orchestra reunion album is really
> neat. I
> >> can't understand why there was no interest in reissuing it back when MCA
> >> was dipping into the Kapp, GA and Command catalogs occasionally, in the
> >> early CD days. A reissue now would be a low-quality dub from an LP
> because
> >> the master tape likely burned up on the Hollywood film lot a few years
> ago.
> >>
> >> I like your introduction, too. Venuti is somewhat forgotten today,
> >> compared to Stephane Grappelli.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 11:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] A Labor of Love
> >>
> >>
> >>  Indeed, that was a major part of the challenge. The Wikipedia
> guidelines
> >>> to
> >>> do not make easy, or even permit, traditional discography. I suspect
> that
> >>> is as the guidelines were developed
> >>> by users who have a skewed idea of what a discography is, or no idea of
> >>> the
> >>> real thing. So I wanted to see just how close I could get to "real"
> >>> within
> >>> their guidelines.
> >>>
> >>> thank you,
> >>>
> >>> Dave Lewis
> >>> Hamiton, OH
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 10:33 AM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Good work, Dave!  And it's great that you included a real discography.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> John Haley
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 9:59 AM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > I started this page June 28, 2011. Today I finally got it into the
> >>>> > formatting that Wikipedia expects for discographies. I don't
> >>>> personally
> >>>> own
> >>>> > more than a couple of Joe Venuti records, but I wanted to know what
> >>>> was
> >>>> out
> >>>> > there, hence the interest. I like it, as it is constructed for use
> in
> >>>> the
> >>>> > field, though Wikipedia took down my cover image as it bore an
> >>>> (expired)
> >>>> > copyright notice on the cover art. I'll have to find other images to
> >>>> use.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Venuti_discography
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Enjoy!
> >>>> >
> >>>> > David N. Lewis
> >>>> > Hamiton, OH
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>