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Hi Sarah,

That part, I agree with you. She's not incompetent at all. You may be perceiving some of the 
comments as sexist, and I can see that point of view. I think Ms. Fish hasn't done complete homework 
as far as the project budget. That's being hasty as far as pulling the crowd-funding trigger. I 
think many people who seek crowd-funding make this mistake and I think the crowd-funding sites 
(which take a cut of everything) are partly to blame, for not requiring firm budgets and timetables 
and then vetting applications thoroughly. There's a business opportunity for someone who wants to 
start an arts and entertainment oriented crowd-funding system that includes careful review of 
applications, requirements for tight budget and timetable controls, and overall more professional 
look and feel. I think such a business would attract money from a higher class of patron, and some 
very worthwhile art and entiertainment could be created (and actually see the light of day).

Somewhat related to this, I can see the day when a music group will have to solicit pre-orders for 
physical media, because their label won't commit to much if any of a production run. Amazon already 
facilitates a version of this, where fans can pre-order with a link from the artist's website (other 
retailers also offer this service). Amazon can then have a better idea of its order to the label 
(there are no returns these days, so retailers have to sell through all the inventory they order). 
The artists can also offer this through Facebook, Twitter and other social media. Younger fans are 
tuned into this, I've heard of thousands of pre-orders popping up the day an artist announces an 
album, even if it's 6 months from release date. The key to all of this, including crowd-funding, is 
a desire to pre-know demand for something. It's a natural business instinct, to really know your 
market.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Bryan" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] W.C. Handy Docu


> Hi Tom,
>
> What perplexes me is not that list members would disagree with her
> crowd-funding methods, or even her opinion of what the appropriate range of
> potential costs are for editing. Those are perfectly valid grounds for
> debate. What I'm wondering is why those disagreements should lead to the
> conclusions that she's "being taken for a ride" or not "up to the task for
> the financial skills." It seems like a quite a leap, from disagreement to
> assumed incompetence.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sarah:
>>
>> You make a good partial point, but I don't think any Ms. Fish's previous
>> experience was in financing a project. The artistic responsibilities and
>> skills are very different from the financial. Me personally, I don't think
>> the project is without merit, not in the least (to re-spin the double
>> negatives -- I think it's a fabulous topic for a documentary). However, I
>> am concerned that Ms. Fish may not fully be up to the task for the
>> financial skills required by an executive producer. The more we discuss
>> this, the more it worries me that she quotes a decent-sized "price range"
>> for the editing. She should have nailed down a firm quote with a
>> post-production group she's comfortable with before seeking funding. I
>> wouldn't want to donate money to this project until Ms. Fish produced a
>> firm line-by-line budet and timetable. What is difficult about that?
>> Professionals are required to provide firm price quotes and timetables all
>> the time. And by the way, if she did this, given the excellent subject
>> matter and track record in the artistic end of the business, I don't think
>> she'd have any trouble raising the funds she needs. If she did so and then
>> delivered on time and on budget, she would be a stand-out in the
>> crowd-funding world.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Bryan" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 7:56 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] W.C. Handy Docu
>>
>>
>> I'm taken aback by list members' seemingly automatic assumption that this
>>> producer doesn't know what she's doing. What is this based on? If you
>>> think
>>> the project is without sufficient merit, don't donate to the fundraising
>>> campaign. But if you look at Joanne Fish's professional history, you'll
>>> see
>>> that this "want-to-be-producer with good intentions" has in fact been a
>>> producer for more than thirty years, and has been nominated for seven
>>> Emmys
>>> (and won one). I don't know her personally or know anything about the
>>> project beyond what I've read online, but I suspect that someone who's
>>> been
>>> in film and TV production for more than 30 years, including for major TV
>>> networks, probably has a pretty decent idea of what editing costs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Based on the few video-production projects I've worked, high-quality
>>>> documentary post-production and editing is some of the slowest going.
>>>> Even
>>>> the best modern computers need grinding time to render the HD video, and
>>>> even a super-efficient editor gets slowed down by his or her machines.
>>>>
>>>> Someone who contemplates participating in this crowd-funding campaign
>>>> might ask if the woman is GUARANTEED the 15-18k price by the
>>>> editor/post-production crew. Will they CAP it at 18k? If not, she may
>>>> well
>>>> need more money. A true professional hates to cap a labor-intensive
>>>> project's cost, but we all do it to get the work.
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Radlauer" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 7:05 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] W.C. Handy Docu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Studio rate say $175/hr.  For PROFESSIONAL work is 125 studio hours,
>>>>
>>>>> perhaps including the requisite post-production sound editing, sound
>>>>> design
>>>>> and narration work, also not cheap for PROFESSIONAL services.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a creative production with major release ambitions, a pittance.
>>>>>
>>>>> She'll need more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave R
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Aaron Levinson <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There most certainly is. Someone is taking her for a ride.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:30 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Wow.  She wants to raise the $22,000 largely to pay for editing the
>>>>>> film.
>>>>>> > That has to be a cheaper way to edit a film like that.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Best,
>>>>>> > John Haley
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Dave Radlauer <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Hi --
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I know the producer, Joanne Fish.
>>>>>> >> https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/11426512
>>>>>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9E_ZDTIjRU
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> She's a want-to-be-producer with good intentions striving to develop
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> make this doc.
>>>>>> >> https://www.facebook.com/MrHandysBlues
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mr-handy-s-blues-a-musical-documentary#/story
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Dave R
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 9:27 AM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> First of all, I have nothing to do with this campaign; the link was
>>>>>> sent
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >>> me courtesy of a librarian friend. It looks like a very interesting
>>>>>> >>> project,
>>>>>> >>> yet her campaign seems not very close to its goal.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mr-handy-s-blues-a-musical-documentary#/story
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> best,
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> David N. Lewis
>>>>>> >>> Hamilton, OH
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>> >> hm# 510-848-8323
>>>>>> >> cell# 510-717-5240
>>>>>> >> www.JAZZHOTBigstep.com
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> hm# 510-848-8323
>>>>> cell# 510-717-5240
>>>>> www.JAZZHOTBigstep.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> **************************
>>> Sarah Bryan
>>> http://sarah-bryan.com
>>> http://glassdarkly-sarahbryan.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> www.oldtimeherald.org
>>> **************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> **************************
> Sarah Bryan
> http://sarah-bryan.com
> http://glassdarkly-sarahbryan.blogspot.com
>
> www.oldtimeherald.org
> **************************
>
>