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Jamie, you are probably doing more intensive computering for Plangent Process than most of the rest of us. What platform are you using? Thanks, John On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Jamie Howarth <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > If my maintaining platform was this labor intensive I'd never get anything > done. > > Please pardon the mispellings and occassional insane word substitution I'm > on an iPhone > > > On Nov 29, 2015, at 1:21 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > There were good reasons why Windows XP was the big workhorse for > Corporate > > America for so long, and why Corporate America resisted changing for as > > long as it could. Microsoft had to take extraordinary measures to force > XP > > to die, murdering its own product to force in the new ones. > > > > Best, > > John > > > > > >> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> > >> Richard's situation is more complex but in some ways similar to mine. I > >> run two XP machines, and will continue to for the foreseeable. One is > the > >> secondary DAW in the studio (formerly the primary DAW). I run XP on that > >> because the last reliable/stable/repeatable version of Roxio > disc-burning > >> software runs on XP. The new version, now owned by a different company, > is > >> awful, unstable and doesn't do some of its claimed DVD-authoring > features. > >> I also have an older version of Sony Vegas and Sony's DVD-authoring > >> software that runs well on XP and I did not want to fool with trying to > >> make it run well on W7. That computer also runs Soundforge 9, the last > >> version of Soundforge that seamlessly integrated with Sony's CDArchitect > >> software (current versions of Soundforge include a stand-alone version > of > >> CDArchitect which cannot be accessed and a projected dumped into it > >> directly from Soundforge). Finally, that machine has one of the older, > >> super-reliable Plextor Pro optical drives in it. That computer > continues to > >> be very useful for authoring, duplicating, ripping and otherwise working > >> with optical media. > >> > >> In my home office, the main computer still runs XP. I have a bunch of > >> older programs on it, and prefer the older Office interfaces, the older > >> Photoshop setup and the older Outlook Express e-mail client. I know I > will > >> be forced to "upgrade" out of this world one day, but the computer still > >> does these tasks plenty fast, so that day is hopefully many months and > >> years away. > >> > >> Everything else around here runs W7 except that one computer (now the > >> primary DAW in the studio), which runs W10. However, as I said, after > >> hearing Dave's tales of woe, I might swap back in the W7 drive. As I > also > >> said, W7-64 is a fast operating environment for the kinds of things I > do. I > >> don't prefer the W7 user interface to XP. I find things like navigating > and > >> moving files take more steps or mouse-clicks, and I prefer the "classic" > >> folders view. As I said, I was an early adopter of Windows 95, I learned > >> quickly how to do things efficiently. By the time of Office 2003, they > had > >> gotten all those apps running fast and almost always crash-free. So I > see > >> no need to re-learn any of this since I can do what I need to do very > >> quickly and know a bunch of control-key shortcuts. In most ways, XP was > an > >> ideal system because it brought all the good ideas of the original > Windows > >> forward, kept things familiar enough, made some things easier and more > >> refined, and finally made the old NT-style kernal rock-solid. I > understand > >> why they needed to do a bunch of things from scratch with Windows 7, but > >> they didn't need to redesign the Office interface, definitely didn't > need > >> to do all the stupid interface chances with Windows 8 and should spend > more > >> time making sure W7, W8 and W10 are as rock-solid as XP ended up being. > >> > >> -- Tom Fine > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard L. Hess" < > >> [log in to unmask]> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 11:37 AM > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Wibdows 10? > >> > >> > >> Hi, John, > >>> > >>> Your eagle eye was working...as I stated in the other message, Windows > XP > >>> is very peripheral to the vast majority of my work. I keep it around > for my > >>> thermal transfer CD/DVD printer. Although I intended to switch to > inkjet > >>> printable CDs, I haven't had the need to place an order for the blanks > >>> yet...my usage of optical media has gone WAY down. I have been able to > >>> convince almost all my software...or find substitutes for it...to run > on > >>> Windows 10. Remember, I've been running Windows 7 since early 2011, > and I > >>> found that a far more difficult transition. All but one of the W7 and > later > >>> machines I'm responsible for have been 64 bit. I was very conservative > with > >>> one friend who does writing and editing, so her first post-XP machine > was > >>> W7/32. Her second machine was W8.1/64. > >>> We had 10 W7 and and 2 W8.1 machines in our family of four. The > >>> Historical Society I do IT work for has 4 W7 and 1 W8.1 machine and > then > >>> there is the aforementioned friend with two machines. So, that brings > me to > >>> 18 post XP machines to care for and worry about. > >>> > >>> I have actually done 7 of the 12 machines here. My three towers and two > >>> laptops and the two oldest (now surplus) machines when the boys each > got an > >>> 8.1 laptop as their original primary machine had issues. Issues fixed, > >>> older backup machines made surplus. One of those updated has the W10 > >>> install on a HD in a drawer and a new HD with Open SUSE Linux on it > just > >>> for my amusement...I am easily amused. > >>> > >>> To complete the picture, I have three "keeper" XP machines. The > original > >>> 2003 XP machine I bought is the one doing the printer support in the > >>> studio. I have a later machine set up as an audio workstation that has > been > >>> used for massive optical disk burning projects in the past and also > for DAT > >>> ingest in the past with a second operator. A third machine is kept as a > >>> backup for the one in the studio. I have a crummy machine in a nice > case > >>> and a nice 2004 laptop that was even too slow for Linux, so it stays > XP. > >>> Those two machines are heading out the door someday soon. The tower > >>> probably to recycling and hopefully someone will take the laptop via > >>> Kijiji. I also have an HP 100 LX and HP 200 LX palmtop DOS computers > which > >>> I rarely use now. > >>> > >>> So, since Microsoft is offering free upgrades until July 29, 2016, I > >>> thought I should get started soonish. > >>> > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows-10/upgrade-to-windows-10-faq > >>> > >>> I first upgraded my "good" laptop (4th gen i5, 8 GB, orig W7 Home > >>> Premium) to W10 and was able to use it without a hitch. I researched > the > >>> drivers for most of my equipment and tried one particularly fussy piece > >>> (Nikon Super Coolscan 5000ED/LS5000) on the laptop. All was good. > >>> > >>> So, I went ahead and over about a week upgraded the three towers and > the > >>> workshop laptop. Then I upgraded the two older machines as described > above. > >>> I was surprised that the little single-core "netbookish" PC ran > >>> surprisingly well, but don't ask it to multitask! If you are familiar > with > >>> the Passmark CPU ratings, the netbookish has a rating about 500 (the > same > >>> as a Pentium IV 3.2 GHz machine) but the system seems faster (64 vs 32 > >>> bits?). The HP that became a Linux machine scores about 1400. The boys' > >>> newer laptops and mine score around 4000 as does my ingest desktop. > The two > >>> other desktops score around 6000 and the W8.1 machine at the Historical > >>> Society scores over 10,000 and has a boot SSD--it screams. Our other > >>> laptops are around 2500. > >>> > >>> So with the two spares and my five done, my further deployment will be > >>> the boys' pairs over Christmas and my wife's and the five Historical > >>> Society machines and my other friend's two in the late winter > (Feb-Mar). > >>> > >>> It works because we will no longer have the mix of 7 and 8.1 for > >>> different users/organizations. > >>> > >>> Windows 10 plusses: > >>> --boots faster > >>> --resolves some driver/hardware/software issues > >>> (one remains unresolved on one of two machines) > >>> --A superior UI to W8.1 and more like W7 in some respects > >>> --Improved UI functionality on many fronts > >>> --quite compatible (I Had to install a new driver to get > >>> expected results from a 8-9 year old HP laser printer > >>> HP had the driver available (HP P2015dn) > >>> > >>> Windows 10 minuses: > >>> --you actually have to DO IT. Although the upgrade process is > >>> automated you still need to go through all the functions and > >>> see if anything is not working. > >>> --A very few programs will not run. I can't recall anything that > >>> needed a paid-for license to run. I do recall buying a few things, > >>> but don't remember the reason...think it was "nice to have." > >>> --W7 gadgets won't run, but the performance meters are available as > >>> part of 8gadgetpak which runs fine on 10. I use a very cut-down > >>> version of just the CPU on the netbook. > >>> http://8gadgetpack.net/ > >>> Seems safe http://bit.ly/1NjsMFp > >>> I have used the "suite" from Addgadgets.com which are included: > >>> All CPU Meter, Drives Meter, Network Meter plus the Microsoft > >>> analog clock, also included. > >>> > >>> This is one thing I don't have to worry about until 2025 or so and I > >>> won't have to spend money or needlessly dispose of machines in 2020 > due to > >>> the cost of upgrade then. I might want to, but most of our machines are > >>> pretty competent. > >>> > >>> As to Microsoft Office, I have been using Libre Office for a while. It > is > >>> not perfect, but it's good and is being actively developed. We've been > >>> under a bunch of pressure to save money at the Historical Society (for > good > >>> reasons) and I suggested one way to do that on the three new machines > we > >>> purchased last year was to use Libre Office instead of Microsoft > Office. > >>> People are adapting well, from what I hear. Unless the boys require an > >>> updated version of MS Office, I don't see a reason to go beyond version > >>> 2010. > >>> > >>> The replacement for Publisher and Visio is more difficult. The Libre > >>> Office Draw is a simple drawing program, not Visio, but can be used for > >>> many things. Scribus is a full-featured desktop publishing application > and > >>> having never been a fan of Publisher, I did a project last year in > Scribus > >>> that worked fine. I don't do enough DTP to warrant keeping InDesign > >>> current. I have old versions (pre-CS) and the free CS2 version, but > opted > >>> for Scribus the last time I needed to do something to make certain > that the > >>> licensing was valid. (CS2's licensing is a bit iffy if you haven't > bought > >>> that version, which I hadn't). I like InDesign CS2 better than Scribus, > >>> partially because I learned a bunch of things on InDesign. With that > said, > >>> Publisher 2003 seems to at least open and load a template on W10. > >>> > >>> There are Win 9x programs that were written for various digital > >>> multimeters that sometimes ran under XP but balk at 64 bit OSs. I don't > >>> have any post-XP 32-bit machines here. > >>> > >>> The W7 XP 32 bit virtual machine is gone from Windows 10, although my > CD > >>> printer software did not run under it. My old version of Visio did, > but I > >>> stopped using that long ago so I wouldn't create more documents. Libre > >>> Office spent a lot of time on importing Visio docs to their draw > program > >>> and I thank them for that. Not perfect, but good. > >>> > >>> That's all I can think of...think I'll turn this into a blog post. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Richard > >>> > >>>> On 11/29/2015 9:51 AM, John Haley wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I noticed in the separate string about "laptop upgrade" (really about > >>>> external small DAC's), that you, Richard Hess, said you have upgraded > >>>> most > >>>> of your computers to Windows 10. I have been hesitating to do that > >>>> myself, > >>>> simply because things are working now the way they are, using various > >>>> other > >>>> Windows versions (except XP, which has now unfortunately left the > >>>> building > >>>> for me, along with some great programs that I lost). I don't want to > >>>> invite trouble, and as we all know, Microsoft is not really our > friend. > >>>> And I have read somewhere online that Windows 10 has had a bug > involving > >>>> hi-def audio files. > >>>> > >>>> But if you are using Windows 10 for audio work, Richard, and all is > going > >>>> well, maybe I will do the free upgrades to Windows 10 on all my > >>>> computers. > >>>> Microsoft sure wants me to, with all the constant nagging upgrade > >>>> messages. That in itself is almost a reason not to. > >>>> > >>>> How has your experience been with Windows 10? Any problems? > >>>> > >>>> And others on the list? Liking it? Not liking it? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> John Haley > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>> Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask] > >>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada 647 479 2800 > >>> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > >>> > >>> > >>> >