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Isn't the provision at *LC-PCC PS*, 2.12, Series or phrase, 5?

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Hideyuki Morimoto
Japanese Cataloger
C.V. Starr East Asian Library
300 Kent Hall, mail code 3901
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On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Yan Liao <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Thanks John, Adam and Stephen for spending time on the topic.
>
>
>
> Sorry that I overlooked no2008067277,
>
>
>
> 010  no2008067277
>
> 040  OkS ǂb eng ǂc OkS
>
> 1001 Foucault, Michel, ǂd 1926-1984. ǂt Lectures at the Collège de France
>
> 430 0Lectures at the Collège de France
>
> 643  Basingstoke ǂa New York ǂb Palgrave Macmillan ǂb République
> Française
>
> 667  Series-like phrase; do not add as a note.
>
> 670  Security, territory, population, 2007: ǂb t.p. (Lectures at the
> Collège de France, 1977-78)
>
>
>
> As Stephen described, the book that I have doesn’t have series title page.
> But it does have a separate page before the title page with words like
> “Also in this series: …” and “forthcoming in this series:…” . On the title
> page, it also has “English series editor:…”. On publisher’s Website, it is
> treated as a series:
> http://www.palgrave.com/series/Michel-Foucault-Lectures-at-the-Coll%E8ge-de-France/MF/
>
>
>
> I double checked RDA and LC-PCC PS, and didn’t find useful information
> regarding to how to decide whether a statement can be treated as a series
> or just series-like phrase.
>
>
>
> While searching CONSER cataloging module 12.2 and LCRI 1.6, I found such
> statement may better be treated as series-like phrase:
>
> LCRI 1.6
>
> 5) If a named lecture series appears on the item as a series title, i.e.,
> it is not extracted from another context (e.g., other title information,
> prefatory material) and it has or is likely to have data that remain
> constant from issue to issue, treat the name of the lecture series as a
> series title.  In case of doubt, do not treat the name as a series.
>
>
>
> In this case, “Lectures at the College de France” is extracted partially
> from the other title information.
>
>
>
> I will update that record to be RDA record by adding another 430 for
> Michel Foucault: Lectures at the College de France; 370 and 380
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for all the help. The discussion enhanced my knowledge.
> Another thought is whether we should add LCRI 1.6 to somewhere in LC-PCC PS
> to help with clarify the potential confusions?
>
>
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
>
>
> Clara
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Adam L. Schiff
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:43 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] questions about a series including a personal
> name
>
>
>
> Stephen wrote:
>
>
>
> “The site presents the series title as "Michel Foucault: Lectures at the
> College de France," so if I was establishing this, I'd want to do so with
> that phrase; but is that punctuation problematic, with its implication that
> the title proper is simply "Michel Foucault"?”
>
>
>
> RDA allows you to retain punctuation as found, so it would be perfectly
> legit to treat that entire thing as a title proper, if that’s what the
> cataloger decides is the title proper.
>
>
>
> 1.7.3 Transcribe punctuation as it appears on the source
>
> One of the examples here shows an example of punctuation that includes
> what is an ISBD dash that is transcribed as it appears:
>
>
>
> Vessels on the Northwest coast between Alaska and California -- 1543–1811
>
>
>
> 2.3.1.4  Transcribe a title as it appears on the source of information (see
>  *1.7[image: http://access.rdatoolkit.org/images/rdalink.png]*
> <http://access.rdatoolkit.org/document.php?id=rdachp1&target=rda1-785#rda1-785>
> ).
>
>
>
> 2.3.2.1  The *title proper**▼*
> <http://access.rdatoolkit.org/document.php?id=rdagloss&target=rdagloss-1967#rdagloss-1967>
>  is the chief name of a resource (i.e., the title normally used when
> citing the resource).
>
>
>
> 2.3.2.7  Record the title proper by applying the basic instructions at *2.3.1[image:
> http://access.rdatoolkit.org/images/rdalink.png]*
> <http://access.rdatoolkit.org/document.php?id=rdachp2&target=rda2-3079#rda2-3079>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
> There aren’t any examples in 2.3.2.7 similar to the one in 1.7.3, but my
> reading of these instructions is that if you decide that Michel Foucault:
> Lectures at the College de France is the title proper, then you
> transcribe it with the colon as found on the preferred source.  But one
> could just as easily decide that Michel Foucault is title proper and the
> rest is other title information.   RDA doesn’t tell you how to make that
> decision, nor do any best practice documents as far as I can recall.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> Adam L. Schiff
>
> Principal Cataloger
>
> University of Washington Libraries
>
> Box 352900
>
> Seattle, WA 98195-2900
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> (206) 543-8409
>
> (206) 685-8782 fax
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [
> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of
> *Stephen Hearn
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 6:28 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: questions about a series including a personal name
>
>
>
> This gets really complicated.
>
>
>
> The series-like-phrase authority is not coded RDA.  Under AACR2 a series
> had to have a separate series title appearing on items in the series.  I've
> examined one of the Palgrave volumes, and while there are clear references
> to a series in the editor's introduction, there isn't really a separate
> series title. Each volume has a distinct volume title plus a subtitle in
> the form "Lectures at the College de France, YYYY-YYYY," with the year
> spans varying from volume to volume. Under earlier conventions, this
> presents as a series without a series title, since the same content
> couldn't be both a subtitle and a series title; hence the
> series-like-phrase authority, I'd guess.
>
>
>
> The "Foucault ... $t Lectures. $k Selections" authority is RDA, but is not
> for the series. It's for a volume of lectures from the College de France in
> the original French titled "La societe punitive." "Lectures. $k Selections"
> appears on the LC bib record for that title in a 240 (with Foucault as the
> 100), implying that this is an instance of RDA 6.2.2.10.3 and its LC-PCC
> PS, Other Compilations of Two or More Works.  Presumably the same 240 could
> be applied to other collections of Foucault lectures and would serve to
> collocate them, though not the way a series added entry would.
>
>
>
> So the two authorities do not need to be reconciled.  The "... Lectures.
> $x Selections" authority could be the basis for a new expression authority
> for "Foucault .... $t Lectures. $k Selections. $l English" to name the
> English language volumes collectively but loosely, and leaving the question
> whether that really names an expression to dangle.
>
>
>
> Or one could take RDA 6.2.2's allowance for drawing preferred titles from
> reference sources outside the pieces in hand to choose a series title from
> the publisher's web site:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.palgrave.com/series/Michel-Foucault-Lectures-at-the-Coll%C3%A8ge-de-France/MF/
>
>
>
> The site presents the series title as "Michel Foucault: Lectures at the
> College de France," so if I was establishing this, I'd want to do so with
> that phrase; but is that punctuation problematic, with its implication that
> the title proper is simply "Michel Foucault"?
>
>
>
> Or one could decide that RDA Glossary definition of series ("A group of
> separate resources related to one another by the fact that each resource
> bears, in addition to its own title proper, a collective title applying to
> the group as a whole") excludes series from being named by reference
> sources, despite the more lenient approach to titles generally at RDA 6.2.2.
>
>
>
> I think the course of action most in line with what's already done would
> be the 240 with a language qualifier added and no series added entry or
> note as instructed by the series-like-phrase authority; but that's more
> expedient than principled. The problem is that there are conflicting
> principles in this case and no consensus yet on what practice should be.
>
>
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Adam L. Schiff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I didn’t see John Hostage’s reply regarding this, and I of course did not
> consider (but should have) the possibility that these are just selections
> of his lectures and that a conventional collective title could be used.
> The two series authority records that John identified ought to be
> reconciled if they are actually the same thing.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> Adam L. Schiff
>
> Principal Cataloger
>
> University of Washington Libraries
>
> Box 352900
>
> Seattle, WA 98195-2900
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> (206) 543-8409
>
> (206) 685-8782 fax
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Adam L. Schiff
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 5:07 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: questions about a series including a personal name
>
>
>
> Clara,
>
>
>
> If the author of all of the issues in the series is Michel Foucault, then
> you should use an 800 author/title series, because the creator of all of
> the works in the series is Foucault.   If these are all transcripts of
> lectures by Foucault, he’s clearly the creator of the series as well.
>
>
>
> Then you have to decide what the title proper of the series is.  In other
> words, if you were cataloging this is a serial, what would you put in the
> 245 field?  You’ve identified two possibilities, and I can think of a third:
>
>
>
> 245 10 $a Lectures at the College de France / $c Michel Foucault.
>
>
>
> 245 10 $a Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France.
>
>
>
> 245 10 $a Michel Foucault : $b lectures at the College de France.
>
>
>
> So you need to decide what part is title information and what part if any
> is statement of responsibility.  And for the title, you have to decide what
> the title proper is (what would go in 245 $a).  I don’t think there is
> necessarily one correct answer.
>
>
>
> When used as series the possibilities outline above would look like:
>
>
>
> 490 1 Lectures at the College de France / Michel Foucault     [but you
> could leave off the statement of responsibility since it isn’t a core
> element]
>
> 800 1 Foucault, Michel, $d 1926-1984. $t Lectures at the College de France.
>
>
>
> 490 1 Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France
>
> 800 1 Foucault, Michel, $d 1926-1984. $t Michel Foucault: lectures at the
> College de France
>
>
>
> 490 1  Michel Foucault : lectures at the College de France    [but you
> could leave off the subtitle since it isn’t a core element]
>
> 800 1  Foucault, Michel, $d 1926-1984. $t Michel Foucault (Series)
>
>
>
> The reason I added (Series) to the end of the last possibility is that I
> searched OCLC to see if there were any other works that this access point
> would conflict with, and there are other works created by Foucault whose
> preferred title is Michel Foucault.  (Series) seems the most logical thing
> to use to break those conflicts.
>
>
>
> Adam L. Schiff
>
> Principal Cataloger
>
> University of Washington Libraries
>
> Box 352900
>
> Seattle, WA 98195-2900
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> (206) 543-8409
>
> (206) 685-8782 fax
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [
> mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of
> *Yan Liao
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 10:27 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* questions about a series including a personal name
>
>
>
> Dear PCC folks,
>
>
>
> I have a question regarding how to create a series authority record. We
> are cataloging on book: The punitive society. The book is one volume of a
> series: Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France. Here is the
> series Webpage:
> http://www.palgrave.com/series/michel-foucault:-lectures-at-the-coll%E8ge-de-france/MF/
>
>
>
> My question is how to code the series statement?
>
>
>
> Should it be 800 1 Foucault, Michel, |d 1926-1984. |t Lectures at the
> College de France with a 430  Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de
> France? Or it can be 830 Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de
> France?  Also, if the 800 form is picked, should the |t be Lectures at the
> College de France or |t Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Clara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
>
> Data Management & Access, University Libraries
>
> University of Minnesota
>
> 160 Wilson Library
>
> 309 19th Avenue South
>
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>
> Ph: 612-625-2328
>
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>
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>