Isn't the provision at LC-PCC PS, 2.12, Series or phrase, 5?

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On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Yan Liao <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Thanks John, Adam and Stephen for spending time on the topic.

 

Sorry that I overlooked no2008067277,

 

010  no2008067277

040  OkS ǂb eng ǂc OkS

1001 Foucault, Michel, ǂd 1926-1984. ǂt Lectures at the Collège de France

430 0Lectures at the Collège de France

643  Basingstoke ǂa New York ǂb Palgrave Macmillan ǂb République Française

667  Series-like phrase; do not add as a note.

670  Security, territory, population, 2007: ǂb t.p. (Lectures at the Collège de France, 1977-78)

 

As Stephen described, the book that I have doesn’t have series title page. But it does have a separate page before the title page with words like “Also in this series: …” and “forthcoming in this series:…” . On the title page, it also has “English series editor:…”. On publisher’s Website, it is treated as a series: http://www.palgrave.com/series/Michel-Foucault-Lectures-at-the-Coll%E8ge-de-France/MF/

 

I double checked RDA and LC-PCC PS, and didn’t find useful information regarding to how to decide whether a statement can be treated as a series or just series-like phrase.

 

While searching CONSER cataloging module 12.2 and LCRI 1.6, I found such statement may better be treated as series-like phrase:  

LCRI 1.6

5) If a named lecture series appears on the item as a series title, i.e., it is not extracted from another context (e.g., other title information, prefatory material) and it has or is likely to have data that remain constant from issue to issue, treat the name of the lecture series as a series title.  In case of doubt, do not treat the name as a series. 

 

In this case, “Lectures at the College de France” is extracted partially from the other title information.

 

I will update that record to be RDA record by adding another 430 for Michel Foucault: Lectures at the College de France; 370 and 380

 

Thanks a lot for all the help. The discussion enhanced my knowledge. Another thought is whether we should add LCRI 1.6 to somewhere in LC-PCC PS to help with clarify the potential confusions?

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Clara

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] questions about a series including a personal name

 

Stephen wrote:

 

The site presents the series title as "Michel Foucault: Lectures at the College de France," so if I was establishing this, I'd want to do so with that phrase; but is that punctuation problematic, with its implication that the title proper is simply "Michel Foucault"?”

 

RDA allows you to retain punctuation as found, so it would be perfectly legit to treat that entire thing as a title proper, if that’s what the cataloger decides is the title proper.

 

1.7.3 Transcribe punctuation as it appears on the source

One of the examples here shows an example of punctuation that includes what is an ISBD dash that is transcribed as it appears:

 

Vessels on the Northwest coast between Alaska and California -- 15431811

 

2.3.1.4  Transcribe a title as it appears on the source of information (see 1.7[log in to unmask]" alt="http://access.rdatoolkit.org/images/rdalink.png" border="0" height="13" width="31">).

 

2.3.2.1  The title proper is the chief name of a resource (i.e., the title normally used when citing the resource).

 

2.3.2.7  Record the title proper by applying the basic instructions at 2.3.1[log in to unmask]" alt="http://access.rdatoolkit.org/images/rdalink.png" border="0" height="13" width="31">.

 

 

There aren’t any examples in 2.3.2.7 similar to the one in 1.7.3, but my reading of these instructions is that if you decide that Michel Foucault: Lectures at the College de France is the title proper, then you transcribe it with the colon as found on the preferred source.  But one could just as easily decide that Michel Foucault is title proper and the rest is other title information.   RDA doesn’t tell you how to make that decision, nor do any best practice documents as far as I can recall.

 

Adam

 

Adam L. Schiff

Principal Cataloger

University of Washington Libraries

Box 352900

Seattle, WA 98195-2900

[log in to unmask]

(206) 543-8409

(206) 685-8782 fax

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Hearn
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 6:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: questions about a series including a personal name

 

This gets really complicated.

 

The series-like-phrase authority is not coded RDA.  Under AACR2 a series had to have a separate series title appearing on items in the series.  I've examined one of the Palgrave volumes, and while there are clear references to a series in the editor's introduction, there isn't really a separate series title. Each volume has a distinct volume title plus a subtitle in the form "Lectures at the College de France, YYYY-YYYY," with the year spans varying from volume to volume. Under earlier conventions, this presents as a series without a series title, since the same content couldn't be both a subtitle and a series title; hence the series-like-phrase authority, I'd guess.

 

The "Foucault ... $t Lectures. $k Selections" authority is RDA, but is not for the series. It's for a volume of lectures from the College de France in the original French titled "La societe punitive." "Lectures. $k Selections" appears on the LC bib record for that title in a 240 (with Foucault as the 100), implying that this is an instance of RDA 6.2.2.10.3 and its LC-PCC PS, Other Compilations of Two or More Works.  Presumably the same 240 could be applied to other collections of Foucault lectures and would serve to collocate them, though not the way a series added entry would.

 

So the two authorities do not need to be reconciled.  The "... Lectures. $x Selections" authority could be the basis for a new expression authority for "Foucault .... $t Lectures. $k Selections. $l English" to name the English language volumes collectively but loosely, and leaving the question whether that really names an expression to dangle.

 

Or one could take RDA 6.2.2's allowance for drawing preferred titles from reference sources outside the pieces in hand to choose a series title from the publisher's web site:

 

 

The site presents the series title as "Michel Foucault: Lectures at the College de France," so if I was establishing this, I'd want to do so with that phrase; but is that punctuation problematic, with its implication that the title proper is simply "Michel Foucault"?

 

Or one could decide that RDA Glossary definition of series ("A group of separate resources related to one another by the fact that each resource bears, in addition to its own title proper, a collective title applying to the group as a whole") excludes series from being named by reference sources, despite the more lenient approach to titles generally at RDA 6.2.2.

 

I think the course of action most in line with what's already done would be the 240 with a language qualifier added and no series added entry or note as instructed by the series-like-phrase authority; but that's more expedient than principled. The problem is that there are conflicting principles in this case and no consensus yet on what practice should be.

 

Stephen

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Adam L. Schiff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I didn’t see John Hostage’s reply regarding this, and I of course did not consider (but should have) the possibility that these are just selections of his lectures and that a conventional collective title could be used.  The two series authority records that John identified ought to be reconciled if they are actually the same thing.

 

Adam

 

Adam L. Schiff

Principal Cataloger

University of Washington Libraries

Box 352900

Seattle, WA 98195-2900

[log in to unmask]

(206) 543-8409

(206) 685-8782 fax

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 5:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: questions about a series including a personal name

 

Clara,

 

If the author of all of the issues in the series is Michel Foucault, then you should use an 800 author/title series, because the creator of all of the works in the series is Foucault.   If these are all transcripts of lectures by Foucault, he’s clearly the creator of the series as well.

 

Then you have to decide what the title proper of the series is.  In other words, if you were cataloging this is a serial, what would you put in the 245 field?  You’ve identified two possibilities, and I can think of a third:

 

245 10 $a Lectures at the College de France / $c Michel Foucault.

 

245 10 $a Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France.

 

245 10 $a Michel Foucault : $b lectures at the College de France.

 

So you need to decide what part is title information and what part if any is statement of responsibility.  And for the title, you have to decide what the title proper is (what would go in 245 $a).  I don’t think there is necessarily one correct answer.

 

When used as series the possibilities outline above would look like:

 

490 1 Lectures at the College de France / Michel Foucault     [but you could leave off the statement of responsibility since it isn’t a core element]

800 1 Foucault, Michel, $d 1926-1984. $t Lectures at the College de France.

 

490 1 Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France

800 1 Foucault, Michel, $d 1926-1984. $t Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France

 

490 1  Michel Foucault : lectures at the College de France    [but you could leave off the subtitle since it isn’t a core element]

800 1  Foucault, Michel, $d 1926-1984. $t Michel Foucault (Series)

 

The reason I added (Series) to the end of the last possibility is that I searched OCLC to see if there were any other works that this access point would conflict with, and there are other works created by Foucault whose preferred title is Michel Foucault.  (Series) seems the most logical thing to use to break those conflicts.

 

Adam L. Schiff

Principal Cataloger

University of Washington Libraries

Box 352900

Seattle, WA 98195-2900

[log in to unmask]

(206) 543-8409

(206) 685-8782 fax

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yan Liao
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 10:27 AM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: questions about a series including a personal name

 

Dear PCC folks,

 

I have a question regarding how to create a series authority record. We are cataloging on book: The punitive society. The book is one volume of a series: Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France. Here is the series Webpage: http://www.palgrave.com/series/michel-foucault:-lectures-at-the-coll%E8ge-de-france/MF/

 

My question is how to code the series statement?

 

Should it be 800 1 Foucault, Michel, |d 1926-1984. |t Lectures at the College de France with a 430  Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France? Or it can be 830 Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France?  Also, if the 800 form is picked, should the |t be Lectures at the College de France or |t Michel Foucault: lectures at the College de France?

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Clara

 



 

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