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I was surprised with Tom's condensending tone and patronizing dialogue. he
normaly seems to be above such linguistic blunders

On Monday, January 18, 2016, Clark Johnsen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Thank you, Lou.
>
> I know Duane personally and he's always been a gentleman, helpful, and
> genuinely concerned about chemicals and processes for record cleaning,
> besides being like myself a big fan of 78s properly played (and cleaned).
>
> Tom Fine has been prodigious in his explications of records, tapes and
> recording. I've never before seen him angry like this so I trust this
> instance is the exception that proves the rule.
>
> clark
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Both of you boys stop squabbling or I’ll stop the car! Do you want to
> walk
> > home?
> >
> > You have both stepped over a line and should just STOP IT!
> >
> > <L>
> > Lou Judson
> > Intuitive Audio
> > 415-883-2689
> >
> > On Jan 18, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Duane,
> > >
> > > You have a right to your opinions. Rather than making continued
> personal
> > attacks, prove your claims with science. Or go away. As I said before,
> your
> > go-to move of personal attacks indicates the weakness of your claims.
> > >
> > > You've now ventured into a-hole territory wrt personal attacks. Your
> > business model seems to be built on charging a lot of money for a product
> > you CLAIM "works better" but then offer no scientific proof, just claims
> of
> > "hundreds of users" being "satisfied." I'm sure any maker of any record
> > cleaner that has been for sale a number years can claim "hundreds of
> users"
> > being "satisfied," since they're still in business. This does not prove
> the
> > superiority of those products any more than your claims prove the
> > superiority of your product. And you talk of your academic degrees. OK,
> > fine, we're glad you went to lots of school and have some customers.
> You'll
> > never have one in me, because you have now twice personally flamed me on
> a
> > public list. I hope this kind of conduct hurts your business, it
> certainly
> > proves what a miserable nasty person you are!
> > >
> > > Also, I withdraw my previous offer to work with you on scientific
> > testing of record cleaners. I don't want to do any kind of business with
> a
> > miserable SOB like you, ever, for any reason!
> > >
> > > -- Tom Fine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "H D Goldman" <
> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 12:56 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning stylus
> > >
> > >
> > > And I will repeat, that contrary to his vast knowledge of everything
> > about disc recording, Mr. Fine is completely wrong wrt the absolute need
> to
> > use a vacuum source to remove from fluids for a disc recording.  Users
> have
> > successfully used cotton terrycloth to great effect for decades.  With a
> > properly configured cleaning solution the impurities are contained within
> > the fluid & the wicking action of the terry loops is as effective, after
> > the rinse step as the most expensive toy you can find.
> > >
> > > The loudest voices against our work on this list are people who have
> > never used the materials, are unlikely to follow directions & in a number
> > of cases, such as Mr. Fine, believe they have some G-d given right to
> free
> > samples.
> > >
> > > Cleaning any materials is all about the chemistry of the contaminants &
> > that of the cleaning agents & protocol for their use.  The components
> > chosen are known for their broad-based ability to solubilize the variety
> of
> > contaminants usually found on disc surfaces & to leave no residuals after
> > the rinse step.
> > >
> > > I have a right to be on this list & to respond to inaccurate &
> unfounded
> > comments when my experience tells me that such is the case.  A lot of
> this
> > animosity also comes from realizing your past ernest efforts have not be
> as
> > thorough as you thought; but we’ve been telling you this for 25 yrs.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Duane Goldman
> > >
> > > H D Goldman Lagniappe Chemicals Ltd.
> > > PO Box 37066 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA
> > > v/f 314 205 1388  [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Jan 17, 2016, at 1:45 AM, Dave Burnham <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I never realized the emotional feelings people felt towards record
> > cleaners; such a religious Fervour over a pretty basic procedure. As Shai
> > says if you can hear a difference after you've cleaned a disc, whatever
> > method you've used, then at least to some extent, mission accomplished.
> Now
> > tempers have flared and Dr. Goldman has presented his credentials which,
> > though impressive, don't have much to do with cleaning records, and left
> in
> > a snit.
> > >>
> > >> In my own case, I try to look at it logically - if the procedure makes
> > sense, it probably works; I certainly don't go to the trouble of checking
> > cleaned records with a microscope. The Monks machine makes perfect sense
> to
> > me; the recommended fluid is largely distilled water which is pretty
> > harmless. I have seen records destroyed by using a wrong cleaning fluid
> or
> > the wrong amount of fluid, and as Tom Fine pointed out, nothing beats a
> > vacuum for getting  the fluid off the surface before it settles in and
> > leaves water marks.
> > >>
> > >> db
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 1:49 AM, Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Agreed, although A look at the groove does tell a lot. There is also
> > the
> > >>> glue method that I haven't tried yet but makes perfect sense to me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>> Shai Drori
> > >>> Expert digitization services for Audio Video
> > >>> Hi Res scanning for film 8mm-35mm
> > >>> www.audiovideofilm.com
> > >>> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Frank Strauss <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The closest anybody has come to having actual science is not very
> > high res
> > >>>> magnified before and after pictures at the Keith Monks website.
> >  Everyone
> > >>>> seems to say that when they use their favored system, they can tell
> it
> > >>>> works because the sound is better.  Maybe all the systems work?
> > Perhaps
> > >>>> instead of looking at the grooves, a better test would be to compare
> > the
> > >>>> auditory results.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Not even close to the original. The original was microfiber special
> > type
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>> fabric that had a one direction for cleaning. It went into the
> grove
> > to
> > >>>>> pick up dirt. For a teenage on a budget it was terrific. The new
> > ones are
> > >>>>> just corduroy.
> > >>>>> BTW, I have been reading everything on this thread. I must say That
> > the
> > >>>>> Goldman dude hasn't convinced me even a bit. Too much vague claims
> > with
> > >>>> no
> > >>>>> hard evidence for anything.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers
> > >>>>> Shai Drori
> > >>>>> Expert digitization services for Audio Video
> > >>>>> Hi Res scanning for film 8mm-35mm
> > >>>>> www.audiovideofilm.com
> > >>>>> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 4:37 AM, Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> <http://www.needledoctor.com/Discwasher-D4-Kit>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I bought one of the RCA look-alikes and it is not nearly as good,
> of
> > >>>>>> course,
> > >>>>>> <L>
> > >>>>>> Lou Judson
> > >>>>>> Intuitive Audio
> > >>>>>> 415-883-2689
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jan 14, 2016, at 4:15 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:;>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I agree that's a good one. Can you get the fluid anymore?
> > >>>>>>> Another good one is the LAST cleaner -- some sort of smelly
> solvent
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>>> a nail polish brush.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -- Tom Fine
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shai Drori" <
> > [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 6:55 PM
> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cleaning stylus
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I have been using the Discwasher stylus brush that came with my
> > kit
> > >>>>>> that I
> > >>>>>>>> bought around 1986. Still works wonders.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Frank B Strauss, DMD
> > >>>>
> >
>