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I started including CDText earlier than that, around 1998, but it was
limited and most reader ignored it altogether.
Cheers
Shai

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Mark Donahue <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Tom,
> One or two quick comments.
> The first I saw of CDText in the mastering business was around 2004-5. You
> supplied a .bin file on a floppy with your 1630 master and Sony DADC was
> the only one doing it. It was crude and only allowed for 2000 characters
> total.
> A few years later when the 1630 went the way of the Dodo along with most of
> the old replication hardware, we started encoding CD+Text info on all
> masters supplied for replication. Most of the record companies immediately
> stripped this information out during replication. Warner was still doing
> this as late as 2005.
> All the best,
> -mark
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Shai:
> >
> > My understanding is that CDText was always available in Red Book. It
> > doesn't matter what the original players could display, that's my point.
> > Anyone who was using a Commodore or Apple computer in the early CD era
> > could see where media was going. Metadata was going to be very important
> to
> > digital media. My contention is, by surrendering control of their
> metadata,
> > the CD producers, owners, manufacturers and sellers surrendered a key
> part
> > of marketing -- clear, uniform explaination of the product. Depending on
> > booklet text and/or physical packaging was short-sighted. To this day,
> the
> > metadata released from the record companies to such massive retail forces
> > as Amazon are inconsistent, often confusing and often incomplete, because
> > it's usually a job left to interns and clerks instead of being a topline
> > responsibility of project producers. This is a really important
> discussion
> > that should have been had at the beginning, but should still be had. It
> > would behoove the copyright owners to come up with standards and release
> > all media going forward with uniform naming of artists, songs, etc, and
> > uniform formats for how to express, for instance, classical works'
> > movements or other track-title information.
> >
> > And by the way, the sloppy metadata has now spread into the streaming
> > services, because they just use the same gobbledygook that is on Amazon
> and
> > iTunes. If we want "the kids" to use music as something beyond background
> > noise, it is necessary for them to have a clear understanding of what
> they
> > are listening to. In the purely digital realm (streaming and downloads),
> > the only clue beyond sound is good metadata.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shai Drori" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2016 9:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] A case in point why CDText should have been used
> > for metadata from Day 1
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom, you're forgetting that the original red book didn't even have a
> > provision for the text addition. Players were very crude with just a four
> > digit numerical display that could show time or track. All the other
> > additions that came later were additions that some players were not even
> > aware of. Case in point, the CD can actually be 4 channel from day one
> > (part of the red book), but have you ever seen a 4 channel CD or player?
> On
> > the other hand there was never the foresight to change bit depth or
> sample
> > rate. Can you imagine what the CD road map would look like if there was a
> > provision for 20 or 24 bit recordings and even 88.2kHz sample rate? And
> > yes, the original authoring software was terrible. I still remember by
> > heart most of the PQ code rules for track placement and spacing. I'm more
> > of an old fart than I care to admit. haha 😉
> > Cheers
> > Shai Drori
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > The 1995 Smithsonian collection "Big Band Renaissance: the Evolution of
> >> the Jazz Orchestra" is a great example of group-source metadata FUBAR.
> >> dBPowerAmp's CD ripper program allows use of multiple metadata sources,
> >> and
> >> by default does some sort of amalgam of whatever sources you've told it
> to
> >> check. The amalgam on this set is comical! So I manually checked
> metadata
> >> from each source. They are all different, and only GD3 (whatever that
> is)
> >> is anywhere near accurate. I find this often happens with compilations
> --
> >> for instance freedB and/or AllMusic will have different top-level stuff
> >> like titles and whether or not it's a compilation for different
> individual
> >> CDs in the same box set.
> >>
> >> All of this could have been prevented if the industry embraced CDText
> from
> >> the get-go and agreed on uniform naming standards for artists and song
> >> titles. I remember the arguments back in the 80's --  it's hard enough
> to
> >> enter PQ codes into these balky Sony editing systems, and no CD players
> >> have displays for CDText, so why bother. Very short-sighted. The net-net
> >> today is that anyone who wants uniform naming and accurate information
> in
> >> a
> >> digital library has to spend a lot of time editing the crappy metadata
> >> that's out there in group-source land. And, copyright owners have ceded
> >> control of their metadata to a group-source no-QC cluter-you-know-what.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Shai Drori
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