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  The DECCA session has been released on lp and CD, bootlegs - don't think any legitimate issues.  I would expect the
tape to exist somewhere in the vaults.  I think they would have significant commercial value now, and one would hope
that those who own the Beatles rights would recognize their historical value-regardless of musical qualms, and permit
a legitimate release.
  As far as copyright goes, IIRC there was a big battle over the "Hamburg" Star-Club tapes which the Beatles LOST - they had been offered the tapes and had declined, so lost the right to suppress it.  The best/most complete version I've heard was issued in Japan, and there were 2 mid-line CD issued by CBS(??) in the US not as complete as the Japan issue.
  The other significant formative Beatles records are accompanying Tony Sheridan - legit and continuously available.

Thomas. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 11:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 'Holy Grail' Beatles record to be auctioned

They have nothing to file.  Trust me on this.  In UK and some other countries, the loser has to pay the winner's expenses.  That shuts down a lot of harassment suits, unlike in this country.  There is simply no theory that guts out a plain, clear copyright statute.  Even the people you list are not above the law.  If they want to buy Parliament to change the law (a la Cliff Richards on getting the 70 year rule passed in EU, which as I said does not apply to an unreleased recording), they could do that, but it would be too late to stop this one.

Best, John




On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Good luck fighting Paul McCartney, Yoko Ono, Olivia Harrison, Ringo 
> Starr, Apple Corp and UMG, John. You won't live long enough to get 
> through the paperwork.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 11:17 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 'Holy Grail' Beatles record to be auctioned
>
>
> <<If they don't want it out in the world, it has no commercial value
>> because it will be litigated into submission.>>
>>
>> Tom, there would be nothing to litigate.  If its an unreleased 
>> recording, it's in Public Domain in the non-US world.  Under the 
>> wording of the copyright statutes (outside US), it gets only 50 years 
>> (not 70, which applies to released recordings). There would literally 
>> be no position to take to stop it.  This is not just my opinion--it's 
>> simple fact coming right from the words of the statutes themselves.
>>
>> As for the US, of course the record is not copyrighted at all under 
>> federal law, especially since sound recordings could not be 
>> copyrighted under US federal law until 1972.  As for state law, 
>> that's the usual swampy mess, but that would not stop anyone from 
>> releasing these recordings outside the US, and then every child with 
>> a computer could figure out how to buy them on the internet.
>>
>> If these same recordings have already been released by their owners 
>> (bootlegs don't count), then the analysis is different.
>>
>> As a group, we don't need to make copyright law any harder than it 
>> already is.
>>
>> Best,
>> John Haley
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Tom Fine 
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Right, but this was a one-off, probably for Brian Epstein to take 
>> around
>>> to various record companies or maybe club or tour booking agents. If 
>>> "Mint Records" is correct and this is a 78RPM lacquer cut from tunes 
>>> on the Decca demo tape, then it's interesting as a one-off artifact 
>>> used in promoting and spreading the word about the Beatles, but it 
>>> may not be the only source for this music. It's also likely that if 
>>> Sir Paul, Yoko Ono, George Harrison's widow and Ringo wanted this 
>>> material out in the world, it would be have been included in the 
>>> Anthology CDs. If they don't want it out in the world, it has no 
>>> commercial value because it will be litigated into submission.
>>>
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Smolian" 
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 10:10 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 'Holy Grail' Beatles record to be auctioned
>>>
>>>
>>> Then they should be two single-sided lacquers to allow plating of 
>>> each
>>>
>>>> selection.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Smolian
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List 
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Aaron Levinson
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 9:58 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 'Holy Grail' Beatles record to be auctioned
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that these were export copies made for the 
>>>> Indian subcontinent and that due to the absence of rural 
>>>> electrification at the time they could be played on hand cranked machines.
>>>>
>>>> AA
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does the Decca audition tape still exist?
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mint Records"
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 9:28 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 'Holy Grail' Beatles record to be 
>>>>> auctioned
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it was the only speed available to be cut by HMV Oxford
>>>>>
>>>>>> street at the time. Associated Redifusion - a UK ITV franchise - 
>>>>>> were also still cutting 78rpm acetates at this stage too.
>>>>>> Are these not just cuts from the Decca audition tape? If so the 
>>>>>> recordings themselves are not that rare, which hardly makes them 
>>>>>> holy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> grail territory.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If not then it's something different altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a historical artifact, however, as a disc made personally for 
>>>>>> George Martin by Brian Epstein and pretty much the reason why 
>>>>>> they got their contract, it's something altogether different.
>>>>>> I would have thought the acetate made in Hamburg with Lu Walters 
>>>>>> would be the ultimate holy grail though.
>>>>>> On 26 February 2016 at 13:05, seva, soundcurrent mastering < 
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i'd think it's a 78 simply because there were so many of those
>>>>>>> machines already in place, it's cheaper and straight to portable 
>>>>>>> product playable "anywhere". there's been a few 78s from the mid 
>>>>>>> 50's to early 60's people have brought to me for transcription 
>>>>>>> (although most are wartime, 2 decades previous).  after all, if 
>>>>>>> it works, don't buy something new.  j
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:14 AM, Tom Fine 
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Why would they have made a 78RPM disk in 1962? Was this cut on 
>>>>>>> > an old 78-era disk recorder, no tape involved? If so, why, in 1962?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > -- Tom Fine
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "CJB" 
>>>>>>> > <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 5:42 AM
>>>>>>> > Subject: [ARSCLIST] 'Holy Grail' Beatles record to be 
>>>>>>> > auctioned
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > An extremely rare and valuable Beatles record that was found
>>>>>>> >> languishing in a loft is to be auctioned next month.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Described as "a Holy Grail item", the 1962 10-inch record of 
>>>>>>> >> Till There Was You and Hello Little Girl lay forgotten in the 
>>>>>>> >> home of Les Maguire for decades.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-35660169
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> seva
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> www.soundcurrent.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>