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There are substantive cuts that Bernstein made in the Copland Third. "Sweetie, the end is a sin. You've got to change. Stop the presses! We must talk–about the whole last movement in fact." (Bernstein to Copland  27 May 1947)
Copland went along with much of what Bernstein recommended.
It seems to me that it would be wonderful to have a recording of a fully restored Copland 3rd, along with his original version of the Symphonic Ode.
Karl 

    On Sunday, February 21, 2016 7:19 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
 

 I assume whatever score Dorati used was the "official" published score at the time. Without knowing 
the history of these cuts, keep in mind that Bernstein was not conductor of the NYP in 1953, so I 
wonder why he would be responsible for these cuts except in some collaboration with Copland?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Miller" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] A couple of Mercury questions for Tom Fine


The Copland 3rd with Dorati features cuts. I have recordings of 3 performances which feature more 
music. Broadcast recordings with George Szell and the New York Philharmonic and Peter Bay and the 
Rochester Philharmonic are, I believe, of the version of the score as first prepared for publication 
by Copland. An in-house recording with the Boston Symphony and Koussevitzky (now available on 
Pristine) features a cut of two measures. You can read about the cuts Koussevitzky made in the 
dissertation of Elizabeth Crist.
Perhaps someone on this list might have a copy of Allegro-Royale 1513 which features the Copland 3rd 
with the Berlin Symphony conducted by Gerd Rubahn. I have never seen the record and am most 
interested in hearing it. I wondered if it might be a pirate of the Dorati.
I believe Boosey (who publishes the work) has now restored the missing measures in its published 
version of the score. As I recall, the first edition of the score had just about everything...the 
second edition, cuts and now, there is a restored version. How restored it is, I do not know, but 
Crist would know.
On the subject of "complete" versions of the best known American Symphonies, there is one concert 
performance of the Schuman 3rd with Slatkin and the National Symphony which restores the cuts in 
that work. From my perspective, those cuts should never have been made. The first performance of the 
work (with Koussevitzky) was given with cuts. Also, the Harris 3rd is usually done with cuts. These 
cuts were done at the suggestion of Charles O'Connell, to facilitate the recording of the work. 
Bernstein assisted Harris in the cuts. Harris agreed to the cuts only for the recording, and 
preferred that the work be performed as written. The Ormandy recording and the Toscanini broadcasts 
are complete. To the best of my knowledge, there is no extant recording of the Harris 3rd with the 
original ending.
Typing this, I am reminded of an opportunity to recommend recordings for the National Recording 
Preservation Board Registry. One year I recommended the Koussevitzky performance of the Copland 3rd. 
Here we had what is probably the most revered American Symphony conducted by the man who 
commissioned it and gave its first performance. It lost out to the likes of Michael Jackson and the 
Everly Brothers. I guess there are some things I not supposed to understand.
Karl

    On Saturday, February 20, 2016 2:43 AM, Eric Nagamine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


 Hopefully Tom can answer a couple of questions..



1. I've been sorting through a deceased friend's collection and I
noticed there were many different colored labels in addition to the normal
Dark Plum or later Red labels. There's the common white label promo, but
I've also found Pink, Green, Yellow and Gold labels in place of the normal
plum or red labels on stereo SR series discs. Some say promo and some don't.
Any significance in this? I know some of the early mono Mercuries have the
Gold Label and I think so does the Civil War sets, but these are not those.

2. Do you know if the Dorati/Minneapolis Copland 3rd in the most
recent Mercury box has the uncut version of the finale? From what I
understand, every recording from the late 50's on use Leonard Bernstein's
cuts from the late 40's, even the 2 Copland led recordings.



Thanks for any light you can shed on this.



--------------------------

Eric Nagamine