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The use case for labeling fictitious entities would be to enable users to
exclude them from searches for real entities.  Someone searching for male
authors living in London in the late 1800s might not want to find Dr.
Watson in their results. Someone searching for women in Rome might not want
to include the goddess Diana.The option of labeling Watson and Diana as
fictitious entities (or with some such term and/or code) would resolve
that. We have the option now to a degree, but the terminology used to
indicate fictitiousness/irreality varies.

Whenever I play "Who am I?" one of the first questions asked is, "Are you
real?" It's a primary sort for most people. Occasionally that question is
hard to answer in the game, but mostly it's easy.  Without questioning the
value of more fine grained philosophical analysis, I think we should
generally categorize entities with games like "Who am I?" and "Twenty
questions" as our model of inquiry.

Stephen

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 8:38 AM, Steven Folsom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> We need to be careful about what we call fictitious. Without getting too
> heady, who gets to say what is fictional? Every weekend I go for a walk in
> the woods with my daughters up Fairy Hike Mountain. I’m pretty sure that
> experience is real, but you won’t find any mention of it except for
> hand-drawn map in my dining room. Are places referred to in religious texts
> real? I don’t want our metadata taking those positions. What’s the use
> case? Are we really worried that someone will try to get a ticket to Narnia?
>
> I think the safest/easiest thing we can do is to allow things to be things
> if we want to describe them similarly. A person can be a person and still
> be the alternate identity for another person. If we don’t know the person
> is really a pen name, then obviously we don’t say it. If we know they are a
> pen name, but we don’t have a lot of details on the person/s who write as
> that that person, we only say what we know. Using existing ontologies:
>
> <Work1> dcterms:creator <Person1> .
>
> <Person1> a foaf:Person ;
>    rdau:P60037 <http://rdaregistry.info/Elements/u/P60037> <Person2> .
>
> Note, that if a we said Person2 (the “real” person) created Work1 we
> wouldn’t be able to satisfy searches for things written by Benjamin
> Franklin as Alice Addertongue. We would only know generally  that Benjamin
> Franklin also wrote as Alice Addertongue. Also, if Person1 (the alternate
> identity) was only a Nomen, we couldn’t use the dcterms:creator property
> because it has a range of dcterms:Agent. Aligning data would become more
> complicated than it need be.
>
>
> Re: Wrongful attributions, Something erroneously attributed to someone is
> different, and I would suggest we not have one way to say something is
> either wrongfully attributed, attributed to a fictional person, or both. We
> could extend the PROV qualifiedAttribution pattern (perhaps with a
> subclass) to say something was wrongfully attributed.
>
> For example:
>
> <Work1> dcterms:creator <Person1> ;
>    prov:qualifiedAttribution <Attribution1> .
>
> <Person1> a foaf:Person ;
>    rdau:P60037 <http://rdaregistry.info/Elements/u/P60037> <Person2> .
>
> <Attribution1> a ex:WrongAttribution ;
>    prov:agent <Person3> .
>
>
> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on
> behalf of Stephen Hearn <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM
> To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] FRBR-LRM: The bibliographic universe and non-human
> and fictitious agents
>
> The list of use cases isn't really about fictitious entities--it's about
> fictitious creator/contributor relationships, relationships which are
> asserted in bibliographic objects for various reasons but known to be false
> in real-world terms.  Some of them involve fictitious entities, but not
> all.
>
> A list of use cases for fictitious entities should certainly include
> subject use.  Presumably in FRBR-LRM, "subject" is not defined as an entity
> class because it is co-extensive with res ("LRM-R12, Work / has as subject
> / res").
>
> A separate question would be whether fictitiousness should be an attribute
> of res to identify fictitious entities.  I'd argue that it should be.  It
> can arguably be combined with any of the categories defined for res and its
> subentities, so defining it at the level of res makes sense.
>
> Stephen
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Adam L. Schiff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> These suggestions are all great, but one of the biggest categories still
>> not considered is a work about a fictitious character.  The most common
>> example could be a work about a legendary character or about a god/goddess
>> from mythology.  If the model includes fictitious entities, shouldn't it
>> take into account these kinds of entities too?
>>
>> Adam Schiff
>> University of Washington Libraries
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on
>> behalf of Kathie Coblentz <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 9:04 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: FRBR-LRM: The bibliographic universe and non-human and
>> fictitious agents
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 00:39:22 +0000, Wilson, Pete <
>> [log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >My working formulation is that one has an "attributed
>> >creator/contributor" relationship and the other has the
>> >current "real" creator/contributor relationship.  The range
>> >of attributed creator/ contributor relationships would not be
>> >limited to "real" entities, though it would include them.
>> >Some such formulation for expressing evident but not-real
>> >relationships  would be useful in a variety of cases:
>> >
>> >  *   A work attributed to a fictional entity
>> >  *   A work falsely attributed in the past and on some
>> >manifestations to a real entity
>> >  *   A work attributed to a real person but known to be
>> >ghostwritten by another person
>> >  *   A work attributed to a house pseudonym shared by
>> >many unrelated authors, but also known to be by a
>> >particular person.>
>>
>> Good list, and I like David Proch?zka's suggestion to use "attributed
>> name" in
>> these cases.
>>
>> I would emend the second list item to read:
>>     *   A work falsely or erroneously attributed to a real entity
>>
>> That would include cases where the real author has been identified as
>> someone
>> other than the entity to whom the work has been attributed either on some
>> manifestations or in reference sources. Doesn't matter whether the work
>> was
>> originally issued with this attribution, or anonymously.
>>
>> And how about adding another item to the list?
>>     * A work attributed to a real non-human entity but known to be the
>> intellectual product of a human entity
>>
>> This would include cases like the one discussed earlier on this (or
>> another?)
>> forum of "Bo Obama," the presidential dog, who is a real dog but
>> manifestly not
>> the entity responsible for "Bo confidential" (2009), the work for which
>> his NAR
>> record was created. (Since the "as told to" entity in this case was "the
>> editors
>> of MAD Magazine," it's a pretty good bet that the work was a satire, and
>> not a
>> serious attempt to recreate the reality of Bo's daily life from the
>> canine point
>> of view.)
>>
>> It would also cover the case of Tuxedo Hess (lccn no2015080606), who I am
>> sure
>> is a fine animal, an excellent grazer, and a very good galloper, but if
>> truth be
>> told, not much of a storyteller, and not terribly eloquent in the English
>> language:
>>
>> 1000 Tuxedo Hess &#450;c (Horse)
>> 372  Grazing &#450;a Galloping &#450;a Storytelling &#450;2 lcsh
>> 377  eng
>> 670  Tuxedo Hess (Horse). Tuxedo's tails [crossed out] tales, 2015:
>> &#450;b title
>> page (written by Tuxedo Hess) page 4 of cover (a real rescue horse)
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Kathie Coblentz, Rare Materials Cataloger
>> Special Collections/Special Formats Processing
>> The New York Public Library, Stephen A. Schwarzman Building
>> 5th Avenue and 42nd Street, Room 313
>> New York, NY  10018
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> My opinions, not NYPL's
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
> Data Management & Access, University Libraries
> University of Minnesota
> 160 Wilson Library
> 309 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> Ph: 612-625-2328
> Fx: 612-625-3428
> ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242
>



-- 
Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
Data Management & Access, University Libraries
University of Minnesota
160 Wilson Library
309 19th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Ph: 612-625-2328
Fx: 612-625-3428
ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242