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Maybe a visioning exercise would help. I agree with John Hostage and others that we need to be moving toward differentiation based on identifiers, not qualifiers. But that doesn't necessarily mean an abandonment of qualifying information. Actually, it should mean a presentation of more diverse and complete qualifying information. The essential shift is to recognize that name searches need to lead first to descriptions of named entities, not to their associated bib descriptions.

Currently a name search finds name data appended to a resource description.  Brief displays of aggregated data from resource descriptions are the search's result--e.g., including title, author, publication statement with date, class number, availability.  Suppose instead, the first result was aggregated data about the named entity--e.g., preferred name, variant names with different entry elements, dates, activity terms, profession terms, associated titles.  That could come from an authority record. Names not associated with an authority could still aggregate selected titles that the name is associated with in bib descriptions for a brief display. Clicking on the brief display could open up a more complete representation; but in most cases, the brief display would suffice.  Moreover, it would be a better basis for choosing which name represents one's target than an alphabetical list of AAPs; and it would afford more precision in in accessing that person's works than the current jumbled melange of resources by various entities which result from keyword based name searches.

Identifiers would be a better basis for this kind of aggregation of data about named entities than name strings.  It's the possibility of doing such aggregation of named entity data to support users' trying to find and select resources based on an interest in a named entity that drives my interest in identifiers, not any abstract valorization of identifiers per se.

Stephen



On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Kevin M Randall <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I think as long as we have systems and applications that rely on AAP text strings, there will be a use for any and all VAPs.  Or are we to forget about the here and now, looking only at an access-point-free future?

 

If all AAPs and VAPs are interfiled in an alphabetized list, it is much easier to find the appropriate heading to use if there is a recognizeable element appearing in the list—instead of having to open each and every "Watson, Tom"  or "Smith, John" until one happens upon the correct one.  (Someone may know that their Tom Watson is a children's story writer; others may know that he was born in 1965.)

 

Kevin M. Randall

Principal Serials Cataloger

Northwestern University Libraries

Northwestern University

www.library.northwestern.edu

[log in to unmask]

847.491.2939

 

Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of McDonald, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:48 AM


To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Tom Watson (Children's story writer)

 

I am uncomfortable with this proposal.  I wasn’t certain why until John Hostage posted his reservations—it is contrary to the direction we say we should be going, and I don’t see how this helps in the meantime.

 

What use case do you see this being helpful?

 

                                                                                Steve McDonald

                                                                                [log in to unmask]

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Tom Watson (Children's story writer)

 

While Richard is correct regarding what RDA says, I've been thinking for some time now about writing a revision to the instructions that would optionally allow the creation of variant access points that use a preferred name/title with the addition of alternative qualifiers from the ones chosen for the authorized access point.  That would provide a suitable solution to this issue. Is there support within the PCC for such revisions?

 

Adam L. Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, WA 98195-2900

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 11:26 PM -0700, "Moore, Richard" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Jay

 

For better or worse, your proposed 400 runs up against RDA 9.19.2.1 (my italics):

 

“When constructing a variant access point to represent a person, use a variant name for the person (see 9.2.3) as the basis for the access point.”

 

That is, and strictly speaking, we can’t have 400s that are based on the preferred name used in the authorized access point.

 

What we can do is make sure the date is recorded as a data element in 046.

 

 

Regards

Richard

 

________________________

Richard Moore

Authority Control Team Manager

The British Library

                                                                       

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546104                                  

E-mail: [log in to unmask]      

 

“You’re very clever, young man, very clever. But it’s turtles all the way down.”                  

 

 

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shorten, Jay
Sent: 11 May 2016 22:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Tom Watson (Children's story writer)

 

I would also add a 400 with Watson, Tom, $d 1965-  . The first place I always look to identify someone is the dates, since they come conveniently right after the plain name. Then I look for Name $q, then for Name $c, and only then do I wade through the tedious Name, Intial/Middle Name.

 

(I guess I should also take the opportunity to advertise PERSNAME-L, the list about personal names in bibliographic and authority records, while I’m at it. You can subscribe here: https://lists.ou.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=PERSNAME-L&A=1 )

 

Jay Shorten

Cataloger, Monographs and Electronic Resources

Associate Professor of Bibliography

Catalog Department

University Libraries

University of Oklahoma

Co-owner, PERSNAME-L, the list about personal names in bibliographic and authority records

 

[log in to unmask]

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ted P Gemberling
Sent: 11 May 2016 15:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Tom Watson (Children's story writer)

 

Michael,

Please also add a 670 with the information you found.

 

Was it difficult to reach Watson? I wonder if we should make it a practice to make an effort to reach contemporary authors before setting up occupational qualifiers. I recently encountered the heading “Williams, Chris ǂc (Research and knowledge exchange impact officer)” (n 2015187569). That’s an awfully specific job title. What good will it do if he gets another job? Since I don’t know much about the “research and knowledge exchange impact” industry, how will I be able to make the judgment that it’s the same person?

 

Ted Gemberling

UAB Lister Hill Library

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Hearn
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 12:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Tom Watson (Children's story writer)

 

The most important thing in OCLC is to uncontrol the Watson headings from the wrong authority and control them with the right authority. As Michael notes, once the headings are controlled by the correct authority, any changes to that authority's 1XX will be picked up by the bib records.  In terms of practical beneficial effect, controlling headings with the right authority is more important than changing the authorized heading to something better.  

 

Stephen

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Moore, Richard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I think the result should be 667 “Do not confuse with” notes in all the NARs that could be confused ;-) This might also be a case where 672 and 673 fields could come in handy…

 

Regards

Richard

 

________________________

Richard Moore

Authority Control Team Manager

The British Library

                                                                       

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546104                                  

E-mail: [log in to unmask]      

 

“You’re very clever, young man, very clever. But it’s turtles all the way down.”                  

 

 

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Borries
Sent: 11 May 2016 15:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [PCCLIST] Tom Watson (Children's story writer)

 

Dear collective wisdoms,

 

I believe a situation similar to the one I am about to describe was discussed previously on at least one of these lists (and I apologize for the cross posting), but I don’t remember what the resolution was (if there was one), and I think this may be a little different in several respects.

 

The author of the Stick Dog and Stick Cat children’s books is Watson, Tom (Children’s story writer) (NAR nb2014002382).  However, 58 records (if I did the arithmetic correctly) have incorrect headings for this author, either without a qualifier, or with the wrong dates (one record has “1949-“, all the others have “1962-“).

 

I contacted the Tom Watson who writes the children’s stories.  He gave me both a date of birth and a middle name.  He is not the Tom Watson born in 1949 or 1962 (he was born in 1965).

 

My problem with leaving the heading as it is, in addition to the preference for dates as the means of differentiation, is that the Tom Watson who writes children’s stories also did a number of other things that are unrelated to children’s stories, as the authority record makes clear, although it seems as if the children’s stories are the only things published, at least so far (books on speech writing are not his).  Also, since there are many headings that are simply incorrect anyway, there will be the need for cleanup locally and in OCLC no matter which way we go (only 21 additional records need be changed if I change the heading, and the authority record will take care of those in OCLC).

 

Thoughts?

 

Michael

 

Michael S. Borries

Cataloger, City University of New York

151 East 25th Street, 5th Floor

New York, NY  10010

Phone: (646) 312-1687

Email: [log in to unmask]

 


 
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--

Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist

Data Management & Access, University Libraries

University of Minnesota

160 Wilson Library

309 19th Avenue South

Minneapolis, MN 55455

ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242




--
Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
Data Management & Access, University Libraries
University of Minnesota
160 Wilson Library
309 19th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Ph: 612-625-2328
Fx: 612-625-3428
ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242