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Well that and surface noise. 

db

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> On Aug 31, 2016, at 9:33 PM, Ellis Burman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Maybe "warm ambience" = turntable rumble?
> 
> Ellis
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 1:02 PM, DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Clark et al
>> Thank you for your response!  I hope you're still in the vicinity to hear
>> my response, (I've been away from the internet for a few days).
>> I also have to disagree on both counts, my first statement is NOT a mere
>> assertion, (see below), and the second IS true.  I don't know what your
>> background is, I worked for CBC radio music for almost 40 years.  During
>> that time I had many vinyl enthusiasts declaring that vinyl was superior to
>> CD for the reasons expressed previously; so I undertook an experiment - a
>> blind test, (not double blind since I obviously knew what they were
>> listening to).  I was in a CBC studio and had a few vinyl enthusiasts to
>> listen to comparisons.  Unknown to them, I WASN'T comparing LPs to CDs, but
>> LPs to their master tapes; since these were my own recordings I had access
>> to the master analog tapes.  The material I used included a Beethoven
>> String Quartet, a Mozart Wind Serenade, a Choral work and a World famous
>> soprano soloist.  In the case of the last example, a concert was recorded
>> and subsequently, permission was received to release it on LP.  So in this
>> case, the original first generation master tape was recorded at 7 1/2 ips.
>> When we mastered it for LP, I dubbed that tape to a 15 ips tape for editing
>> and mastering.  For the comparison, I used this 15 ips tape, not the
>> original 7  1/2 ips master.  As you can probably guess, the candidates
>> INVARIABLY chose the LP which had audible surface noise as sounding
>> superior to what they thought was a CD but was in fact the master analog
>> tape.  In one case, one of the "victims" said, "You can hear the warm
>> ambience as soon as the stylus touches the disc."
>> 
>> I rest my case - at least until someone chooses to argue it.
>> Regards!db
>> 
>>    On Friday, August 26, 2016 3:48 PM, Clark Johnsen <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> To David Burnham:
>> 
>> A nay and a yay:
>> 
>> *  This "ambience" is nothing more than the sound of stylus against groove
>> walls - it has nothing to do with the original recording.  I have no doubt
>> that these enthusiasts would prefer the sound of an LP to the sound of the
>> master tape from which it was made.*
>> 
>> Beg to differ with both parts. The first is a mere assertion, the second is
>> simply untrue.
>> 
>> * Many if not most 78s from the pre-tape era are also direct to disc
>> recordings so if you have a good copy and good equipment to play it on, a
>> 78 will give better reproduction than any subsequent mastering efforts.*
>> 
>> Quite right!
>> 
>> Clark
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 12:39 PM, DAVID BURNHAM <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think the question comes down to do you want reasons to keep CLASSICAL
>>> vinyl, as opposed to other genres on vinyl or reasons to keep classical
>>> VINYL as opposed to CDs or whatever.  As all collectors know, there are
>>> those who worship vinyl as a medium and feel that it is so superior to
>>> other media, and those who think those collectors should belong to the
>> flat
>>> earth society of audio.  Vinyl DOES have its advantages, mainly that the
>>> highest frequency harmonic content is more accurately reproduced than on
>>> CDs; this is because the highest frequency harmonic content is so low in
>>> level compared to the main body of the audio signal and therefore there
>> are
>>> very few bits available to accurately reproduce it.  It is in this area
>>> that SACDs are so superior.  Many vinyl enthusiasts love the "ambience"
>>> around the music that is missing on CDs.  This "ambience" is nothing more
>>> than the sound of stylus against groove walls - it has nothing to do with
>>> the original recording.  I have no doubt that these enthusiasts would
>>> prefer the sound of an LP to the sound of the master tape from which it
>> was
>>> made.
>>> As opposed to many 78s, the main characteristic of LPs that lowers their
>>> status as a medium is that, aside from the few direct to disc recordings
>>> that have come out, they are all two or more generations removed from the
>>> master recording and it is that master that, as long as it's preserved,
>>> will keep the recordings alive.  Many if not most 78s from the pre-tape
>> era
>>> are also direct to disc recordings so if you have a good copy and good
>>> equipment to play it on, a 78 will give better reproduction than any
>>> subsequent mastering efforts.
>>> db
>>> 
>>>   On Friday, August 26, 2016 11:22 AM, Benjamin Roth <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Greetings everyone.
>>> 
>>> I need some help in convincing someone to keep a collection of classical
>>> vinyl.
>>> 
>>> ASAP!!!  Please!
>>> Ben Roth
>>> '
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ellis
> [log in to unmask]
> 818-846-5525