In my revision of the record, which has not yet been replaced, the present form is moved to 400: Besson, Jacques, ǂc Dauphinois ǂw nnea


Ted Gemberling


From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CHRISTOPHER WALKER
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 2:50 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] What to do with Besson, Jacques, Dauphinois?




French authors of that generation, publishing in the vernacular,

are quite routinely identified on the title pages of their vernacular works

with a term indicating where they are from.

Claude Gruget Parisien, P. de Ronsard gentilhomme VANDOMOIS, etc.


There are 29 hits in the USTC for this Besson,

many with links to digitized copies of his works

and a few with transcriptions of the title page, showing this usage:



Medicaments simples & || Oleogineux. || *** || Premierement Receu d'vn certain

Empirique qu'on || estimoit Alleman, & depuis confirmé || par raisons & experiences. ||

Nouuellement corrigé & augmenté d'vn second ||

Liure, par Iaques Besson, Daulphinois, Pro- || fesseur és Sciences Mathematiques. ||

A PARIS. || Pour Galiot du Pré, Rue S. Iaques, à l'enseigne || de la Gallere d'or. || 1573. ||



de Iaques Besson, Dauphinois, || docte Mathematicien: ||


THEATRE || DES INSTRV- || mens Mathematiques & |

| Mechaniques de Iaques || Besson Dauphinois, do- || cte Mathematicien. ||

AVEC L'INTERPRETA- || tion des Figures d'iceluy, ||

PAR FRANÇOIS BEROALD. || A LYON, || Par Barthelemy Vincent, ||

Auec Priuilege du Roy. || [-] || M. D. LXXIX. ||


It could be argued that "Dauphinois" represents the author's

preferred form of name, when publishing in French.

A form incorporating it should in my opinion end up 

as a 400 on the NAR, to assist catalogers trying to ascertain 

from a piece in hand whether they've found the correct heading.


Christopher H. Walker
Serials Cataloging Librarian

Penn State's representative to the CONSER Operations Committee

Member at Large, ALCTS CRS Executive Committee 2013/2016

126 Paterno Library
The Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802-1812
(814) 865-4212
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From: "Policy and Standards Division" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:00:15 PM
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] What to do with Besson, Jacques, Dauphinois?


I do not know the usage for the term “Dauphinois” in this case, but I suspect it is being used to indicate that he is from the place in France called Dauphine (pardon my lack of accent and see If so, then it should not be part of the name at all. I found a reference source that said he was born in that area (Grenoble is in the Dauphine area) so that makes sense as the meaning of that term in this case. 



If my name appears in a book as “Kate James of Washington, D.C.”  the “of Washington, D.C.” is not part of the preferred name.  When a person does not have a surname, a phrase indicating place of origin, domicile, etc. might become part of the preferred name (see RDA, and that phrase is in $c in MARC.  Technically, a phrase like “of Washington, D.C.” could be part of the authorized access point for a person by applying RDA, but then the punctuation and capitalization changes to become like this: 100 1# $a James, Kate $c (Of Washington, D.C.)


As with all these qualifiers after date of birth and/or death, one should ask what is the most helpful for the user.  Something like “(Of Washington, D.C.)” or “(Librarian)?”  I think using $c (Mathematician) or $c (Engineer) (see is a good way to distinguish him from others with the same name since there seems to be no good agreement about dates of birth and death.


Kate James

Policy and Standards Division

Library of Congress


From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gemberling, Ted P
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 2:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] What to do with Besson, Jacques, Dauphinois?


Off-list, someone pointed out that there is at least a way to make the 400’s consistent: there is Latin usage “Delphinas” on one of his books, which could be added to the third 400. It’s in the nominative case.


Ted Gemberling


From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gemberling, Ted P
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [PCCLIST] What to do with Besson, Jacques, Dauphinois?


I am trying to figure out how to remove the 667 on n  85294628 (Besson, Jacques, Dauphinois) or replace $c Dauphinois with something else. I am baffled by how RDA applies to it. Calling this person “Besson, Jacques, Dauphinois” seems to be the practice on a number of web sites such as World Cat Identities. Do they constitute “reference sources”? If so, does that make that form the “preferred form of the name” (RDA 9.2.2) and qualify it to be left as is?


I notice there is another problem with the authority record. Most of his works appear to be in Latin, so there is a 400 with the Latin form of the name, but the “Dauphinois” is left off, I assume because it’s French, not Latin.


It might be problematic to try to replace the $c with dates, because English and French Wikipedias give different birth and death dates for him, as well as different places of death. So maybe something like “Dauphinois” or (Mathematician) is what we are left with. (On one of his books, the usage is: Dauphinois, docte mathematician).


If I changed it to (Mathematician), would that screw up World Cat Identities and other sites that have been using the present form, or would they update to agree with the NAF?


Thanks for any enlightenment,


Ted P. Gemberling

Historical Collections Cataloger

UAB Lister Hill Library, rm. 234B

1720 Second Ave. South

Birmingham, Ala. 35294-0013

Phone: (205)934-2461

Fax: (205)934-3545