Stephen

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Robert Maxwell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

There are three principles at work here (see http://www.ifla.org/publications/statement-of-international-cataloguing-principles):

 

2.1. Convenience of the user. Decisions taken in the making of descriptions and controlled forms of names for access should be made with the user in mind.

2.2. Common usage. Vocabulary used in description and access should be in accord with that of the majority of users.

2.3. Representation. Descriptions and controlled forms of names should be based on the way an entity describes itself.

 

These principles sometimes (often) conflict. RDA’s predilection for using what we see is based on the principle of representation, but that can conflict with common usage—possibly the bassist is commonly known as “Donald ‘Duck’ Dunn” but I seriously doubt that Mr. Pickens is commonly known by the name “Ryan ‘Slim’ Pickens”. How to people actually refer to him when talking about him? I know nothing about the facts in this particular case, but it seems likely that “Slim” is a nickname and people use one or the other, they don’t refer to him as “Ryan Slim”.

 

So catalogers need to base their decisions on basic principles and try to balance them. It seems to me that of the three principles named, 2.2 might perhaps be the more important in this context. The whole purpose of our choosing one form as the preferred form, including the guidelines we use to choose that form, is to try to guess in advance which form our users are more likely to use when they are attempting searches. In my opinion that should be what we think about when choosing the preferred name, which might not necessarily be what we see in print in front of our eyes.

 

Bob

 

Robert L. Maxwell
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568

"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Prochazka,David
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

Yes, I think that would be an excellent idea, Adam.  When constructing AAPs, I think I lean toward including every element that appears as part of a name on a resource because, to me, this seems to be in keeping with RDA’s predilection for using what we see, rather than omitting, abbreviating, etc. as we so often have in the past.  I’m certainly not claiming one approach is ‘right’ and another is ‘wrong’; it’s just what seems logical to me.

 

David—

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 4:50 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

Dave et al.,

 

Is it a problem that, as we’ve seen from comments posted, different catalogers will arrive at a different result with the exact same presentation of form of name simply based on our preconceptions about what is and isn’t part of the preferred name?  Should we have a policy statement that at least tells us generally what to do?   “Generally, treat a nickname in quotes as part of the preferred name for the person.  Make a variant access point in the form of ‘Surname, Nickname.’”   I know we rely on cataloger judgment, but if Bob Maxwell and I feel like we’d do one thing and John Hostage would do something else for the exact same name found on a title page, some consistency in the form of a general best practice might be useful.

 

Adam

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Reser, Dave
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 1:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

Stephen hit the nail on the head for why we didn’t bring forward that old LCRI; while it was clear that the nicknames often represented a variant form (my colleague Ana Cristan could cite the “Bud Schulman rule” by heart), we had many cases from the catalogers working with our American Folklife Center collections where the ‘nickname’ was *always* recorded with the given name, and staff confirmed with the creators  (usually musicians) that they considered both  parts to be their given name and they never used their nickname alone.  As Stephen says, names have such variety. 

 

Dave Reser

LC PSD

 

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Hearn
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:35 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

What about a name like bassist Donald "Duck" Dunn, where the nickname appears to have a sequential association with the given name? I agree that the quotes around the nickname in the Dunn cases signifies that "Duck" is something other than a given middle name, but I'm not sure that rules out "Dunn, Donald "Duck" ..." as a useful VAP if supported by usage evidence.

 

Names have such variety, I'm not sure what possibilities I'd want ruled out in a policy statement focused on this kind of usage.

 

Stephen

 

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Prochazka,David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Some guidance in the form of an LC-PCC PS would certainly be helpful.

 

David Procházka | Music/Special Materials Cataloger | The University of Akron | Bierce Library—261C | Akron, Ohio  44325-1712 | 330-972-6260 | [log in to unmask]

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:52 PM

To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

RDA doesn’t say what to do, but it’s pretty clear that in the two AAPs you cited that “Skip” and “Slim” are not middle names.  I just don’t think that the person’s intention is to treat those nicknames as middle names.  They are variant first names.  I would have treated them as such:

 

Miller, William

UF Miller, Skip

 

Pickens, Ryan, 1972-

UF Pickens, Slim, 1972-

 

I think we should bring back the LCRI that didn’t get moved into the LC-PCC PSs.

 

Adam Schiff

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Prochazka,David
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

I’d follow the pattern used in these RDA AAPs:

Miller, William “Skip”

Pickens, Ryan “Slim”, 1972-

 

I don’t see anything in RDA that says to ‘deconstruct’ the elements of a personal name and prefer some elements more than others.

 

Of  course, ant variety of VAPs might be added.

 

David—

 

David Procházka | Music/Special Materials Cataloger | The University of Akron | Bierce Library—261C | Akron, Ohio  44325-1712 | 330-972-6260 | [log in to unmask]

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Names including an alternate name in quotes

 

That's what I would do.  

 

Adam

Adam L. Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, WA 98195-2900

 

_____________________________
From: Noble, Richard <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:59 AM
Subject: Names including an alternate name in quotes
To: <[log in to unmask]>

I can't find any guidance for dealing with a name that appears in source as, in this instance,  XJ 'George' Bailey.  Perhaps Bailey, XJ with a 400 for Bailey, George?

 

RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY

BROWN UNIVERSITY  ::  PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912  ::  401-863-1187

<Richard_Noble@Brown.edu>

 

 

--

Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist

Data Management & Access, University Libraries

University of Minnesota

160 Wilson Library

309 19th Avenue South

Minneapolis, MN 55455

Ph: 612-625-2328

Fx: 612-625-3428

ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242