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I concur with my esteemed colleague Ann, and am emboldened by same from Pete and Benjamin. Thanks for your thoughts, all. Netanel Ganin ------------------------------------------------------------ Metadata Coordinator -- Hebrew Specialty Brandeis University (781) 736-4645 / [log in to unmask] My pronouns are he/him/his On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Benjamin A Abrahamse <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I think Ann is correct, inasmuch as the name “Christopher Robin” is > derived > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Robin#Christopher_Robin_Milne> > from “Christopher Robin Milne” it should be: 100 0\ $a Christopher Robin $c > (Fictional character). > > > > And since this has escaped people’s attention, add a “see” ref.: 400 1\ $a > Robin, Christopher $c (Fictional character). > > > > --Ben > > > > > > *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] > GOV] *On Behalf Of *Ann Kardos > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 19, 2016 10:51 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Christopher Robin > > > > All, > > I agree that Christipher Robin should likely be made distinct. My > understanding is with the previous responder that RDA allows us to > unambiguously describe entities that may not have been described > previously. But here's my question... Is Robin his last name? I always > thought his name was being used like first and middle, as if my mother were > calling me Ann Marie vs. Ann. > > Anyway, Christopher Robin stars in several books, several movies, and with > Disney, who knows what else he may feature in. Shouldn't he be given a > name of his own? > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Julian Everett Allgood < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dear Pete and Netanel : > > Hi -- I may be completely off-base on this and if so, I will rely on our > colleagues to quickly set me straight (smile!). > > But to my understanding of the AACR2 and RDA Cataloging Standards, this > question of whether or not a given Entity (in this case, the fictitious > character Christopher Robin) is "eligible" for a NACO Name Authority Record > is really critical. > > With AACR2 and its emphasis on describing Items, NACO Catalogers relied > largely upon "bibliographic warrant" in order to establish names, titles, > subjects, geographic areas, etc. That is, there needed to be a > bibliographic resource libraries would be interested in acquiring for their > collections in order for a NACO or SACO Cataloger to create a Name or > Subject Authority Record for an Entity. > > One of the things that RDA has done very well (in my opinion) is to > discard the "Bibliographic Warrant" prerequisite for NACO & SACO > Identifiers. In doing so, RDA has expanded the universe of Entities > eligible to be described unambiguously within controlled language > vocabularies. And this is critical as libraries and the Information > Community moves forward. > > Whereas AACR2 was almost exclusively concerned with Item descriptions, the > primary focus of RDA (again, IMHO) is upon Entities and the Relationships > between and among those Entities. If any conceivable Entity (and its > Relationships) is now eligible for description within our Bibliographic and > Authority files, then we as Librarians and players within the Information > Landscape must be able to Identify each of those Entities uniquely and > unambiguously, right? > > Getting back to our "Christopher Robin" example, Users and Information > Consumers need to be able to quickly and easily distinguish between: > > Robin, Christopher, $d 1908- > > Robin, Christopher, $d 1953- > > Robin, Christopher, $c (Fictitious character) > > ... as well as Christopher Robin -- the author of the 2004 work, *Flung, *and > all of the Christopher Robins who have lived but may not yet be established > within the world's assorted Authority Files. And of course, all of those > Christopher Robins not yet born. > > As you can probably by this point tell, I believe that the RDA approach to > NACO Entity Descriptions is wise. And that yes indeed, Christopher Robin, > the fictitious character is eligible for a Name Entity Identifier. > > my two cents, > > Everett Allgood > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Netanel Ganin <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Thanks for the thoughts Pete, I was mostly concerned that there was some > pressing 'Official' reason that subject had been used (though having > checked LC's own catalog [which I should've done before] I see that though > the heading is on at least one DLC record, it isn't in LC's catalog) > > > > best, > > > Netanel Ganin > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Metadata Coordinator -- Hebrew Specialty > > Brandeis University > > (781) 736-4645 / [log in to unmask] > > > > My pronouns are he/him/his > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Wilson, Pete <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > I agree that Christopher Robin is not Christopher Milne. > > > > My only question is: do we really need a fictitious character heading for > Christopher Robin? We don’t make one for every fictitious character. The > dubious assertion that certain books were fiction about the real-life > Christopher Milne seems to have been thought by at least one cataloger to > have been of interest for cataloging purposes, but I’m not sure there’s a > call for a heading for Christopher Robin the fictitious character, unless > he has been a character in some non-Pooh-related books, or a subject of > nonfiction books. Which may well be. > > > > Pete Wilson > > Vanderbilt University > > > > *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] > GOV] *On Behalf Of *Netanel Ganin > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2016 8:29 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* [PCCLIST] Christopher Robin > > > > Greetings PCC, > > > > While cataloging a Winnie-the-Pooh Hebrew translation, I ran into an > oddity. I wanted to run it by some wisdom lest I run afoul of an > established practice. > > > > I note that there are a few records in OCLC for Winnie-the-Pooh related > resources which have a subject heading of > > > > *600 1 0 Milne, Christopher 1920-1996. Juvenile fiction* > > > > (Indeed, the OCLC record I was working from had the same heading) > > > > It seems to this cataloger that Christopher Robin, though based on the > actual son of A.A. Milne, is a distinct person in his own right and his > appearances in fiction are not simply fictionalized appearances of > Christopher Milne. > > > > Compare with > > > > *Alice (Fictitious character from Carroll) *and > > > > *Hargreaves, Alice Pleasance Liddell, 1852-1934* > > > > Here the distinction has been drawn between a fictional character which > shares a name with, and is based on, an actual person. > > ---- > > > > So what say you O Best Beloved, am I justified in creating: > > > > *Robin, Christopher (Fictitious character)*? (actual AAP may vary) > > > > best, > > > Netanel Ganin > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Metadata Coordinator -- Hebrew Specialty > > Brandeis University > > (781) 736-4645 / [log in to unmask] > > > > My pronouns are he/him/his > > > > > > > > > -- > > ************************* > > Everett Allgood > Authorities Librarian & Principal Serials Cataloger > New York University Libraries > [log in to unmask] > 212 998 2488 > > > > > -- > > *Ann Kardos* > > Metadata & Resource Sharing Coordinator > > Brandeis University > > Library & Technology Services > > [log in to unmask] > > 781.736.4649 > > Follow us! > [image: Image removed by sender. https://twitter.com/brandeislib] > <https://twitter.com/brandeislib>[image: Image removed by sender. > https://www.facebook.com/brandeislibrary?_rdr=p] > <https://www.facebook.com/brandeislibrary?_rdr=p>[image: Image removed by > sender. https://instagram.com/brandeislibrary/] > <https://instagram.com/brandeislibrary/>[image: Image removed by sender. > http://brandeislibrary.tumblr.com/] <http://brandeislibrary.tumblr.com/> > > >