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Is there a relationship between Christopher Milne the person and
Christopher Robin the character? If so, would you express it or not, and
how?

There's no expressed relationship between "Alice (Fictitious character from
Carroll)" and "Hargreaves, Alice Pleasance Liddell, 1852-1934" in their
authorities.  On the other hand, there is a 400 for "Fairchild, Alice, Lady
(Fictitious character)", the version of Alice which Alan Moore presents in
Lost girls, in the authority for "Alice (Fictitious character from
Carroll)". The Moore version of Dorothy Gale has a 400 on the "Gale,
Dorothy (Fictitious character)" authority; and the authority for "Darling,
Wendy (Fictitious character)" appears to go further down this rabbit hole.

Stephen

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Netanel Ganin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I concur with my esteemed colleague Ann, and am emboldened by same from
> Pete and Benjamin.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts, all.
>
> Netanel Ganin
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Metadata Coordinator -- Hebrew Specialty
> Brandeis University
> (781) 736-4645 / [log in to unmask]
>
> My pronouns are he/him/his
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Benjamin A Abrahamse <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> I think Ann is correct, inasmuch as the name “Christopher Robin” is
>> derived
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Robin#Christopher_Robin_Milne>
>> from “Christopher Robin Milne” it should be: 100 0\ $a Christopher Robin $c
>> (Fictional character).
>>
>>
>>
>> And since this has escaped people’s attention, add a “see” ref.: 400 1\
>> $a Robin, Christopher $c (Fictional character).
>>
>>
>>
>> --Ben
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> OV] *On Behalf Of *Ann Kardos
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 19, 2016 10:51 AM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Christopher Robin
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I agree that Christipher Robin should likely be made distinct.  My
>> understanding is with the previous responder that RDA allows us to
>> unambiguously describe entities that may not have been described
>> previously.  But here's my question...  Is Robin his last name?  I always
>> thought his name was being used like first and middle, as if my mother were
>> calling me Ann Marie vs. Ann.
>>
>> Anyway, Christopher Robin stars in several books, several movies, and
>> with Disney, who knows what else he may feature in.  Shouldn't he be given
>> a name of his own?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Julian Everett Allgood <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Pete and Netanel :
>>
>> Hi -- I may be completely off-base on this and if so, I will rely on our
>> colleagues to quickly set me straight (smile!).
>>
>> But to my understanding of the AACR2 and RDA Cataloging Standards, this
>> question of whether or not a given Entity (in this case, the fictitious
>> character Christopher Robin) is "eligible" for a NACO Name Authority Record
>> is really critical.
>>
>> With AACR2 and its emphasis on describing Items, NACO Catalogers relied
>> largely upon "bibliographic warrant" in order to establish names, titles,
>> subjects, geographic areas, etc. That is, there needed to be a
>> bibliographic resource libraries would be interested in acquiring for their
>> collections in order for a NACO or SACO Cataloger to create a Name or
>> Subject Authority Record for an Entity.
>>
>> One of the things that RDA has done very well (in my opinion) is to
>> discard the "Bibliographic Warrant" prerequisite for NACO & SACO
>> Identifiers. In doing so, RDA has expanded the universe of Entities
>> eligible to be described unambiguously within controlled language
>> vocabularies. And this is critical as libraries and the Information
>> Community moves forward.
>>
>> Whereas AACR2 was almost exclusively concerned with Item descriptions,
>> the primary focus of RDA (again, IMHO) is upon Entities and the
>> Relationships between and among those Entities. If any conceivable Entity
>> (and its Relationships) is now eligible for description within our
>> Bibliographic and Authority files, then we as Librarians and players within
>> the Information Landscape must be able to Identify each of those Entities
>> uniquely and unambiguously, right?
>>
>> Getting back to our "Christopher Robin" example, Users and Information
>> Consumers need to be able to quickly and easily distinguish between:
>>
>> Robin, Christopher, $d 1908-
>>
>> Robin, Christopher, $d 1953-
>>
>> Robin, Christopher, $c (Fictitious character)
>>
>> ... as well as Christopher Robin -- the author of the 2004 work, *Flung,
>> *and all of the Christopher Robins who have lived but may not yet be
>> established within the world's assorted Authority Files. And of course, all
>> of those Christopher Robins not yet born.
>>
>> As you can probably by this point tell, I believe that the RDA approach
>> to NACO Entity Descriptions is wise. And that yes indeed, Christopher
>> Robin, the fictitious character is eligible for a Name Entity Identifier.
>>
>> my two cents,
>>
>> Everett Allgood
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Netanel Ganin <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the thoughts Pete, I was mostly concerned that there was some
>> pressing 'Official' reason that subject had been used (though having
>> checked LC's own catalog [which I should've done before] I see that though
>> the heading is on at least one DLC record, it isn't in LC's catalog)
>>
>>
>>
>> best,
>>
>>
>> Netanel Ganin
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Metadata Coordinator -- Hebrew Specialty
>>
>> Brandeis University
>>
>> (781) 736-4645 / [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>> My pronouns are he/him/his
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Wilson, Pete <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> I agree that Christopher Robin is not Christopher Milne.
>>
>>
>>
>> My only question is:  do we really need a fictitious character heading
>> for Christopher Robin?  We don’t make one for every fictitious character.
>> The dubious assertion that certain books were fiction about the real-life
>> Christopher Milne seems to have been thought by at least one cataloger to
>> have been of interest for cataloging purposes, but I’m not sure there’s a
>> call for a heading for Christopher Robin the fictitious character, unless
>> he has been a character in some non-Pooh-related books, or a subject of
>> nonfiction books.  Which may well be.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete Wilson
>>
>> Vanderbilt University
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> OV] *On Behalf Of *Netanel Ganin
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2016 8:29 AM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* [PCCLIST] Christopher Robin
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings PCC,
>>
>>
>>
>> While cataloging a Winnie-the-Pooh Hebrew translation, I ran into an
>> oddity. I wanted to run it by some wisdom lest I run afoul of an
>> established practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> I note that there are a few records in OCLC for Winnie-the-Pooh related
>> resources which have a subject heading of
>>
>>
>>
>> *600 1 0 Milne, Christopher 1920-1996. Juvenile fiction*
>>
>>
>>
>> (Indeed, the OCLC record I was working from had the same heading)
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to this cataloger that Christopher Robin, though based on the
>> actual son of A.A. Milne, is a distinct person in his own right and his
>> appearances in fiction are not simply fictionalized appearances of
>> Christopher Milne.
>>
>>
>>
>> Compare with
>>
>>
>>
>> *Alice (Fictitious character from Carroll) *and
>>
>>
>>
>> *Hargreaves, Alice Pleasance Liddell, 1852-1934*
>>
>>
>>
>> Here the distinction has been drawn between a fictional character which
>> shares a name with, and is based on, an actual person.
>>
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> So what say you O Best Beloved, am I justified in creating:
>>
>>
>>
>> *Robin, Christopher (Fictitious character)*? (actual AAP may vary)
>>
>>
>>
>> best,
>>
>>
>> Netanel Ganin
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Metadata Coordinator -- Hebrew Specialty
>>
>> Brandeis University
>>
>> (781) 736-4645 / [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>> My pronouns are he/him/his
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *************************
>>
>> Everett Allgood
>> Authorities Librarian & Principal Serials Cataloger
>> New York University Libraries
>> [log in to unmask]
>> 212 998 2488
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Ann Kardos*
>>
>> Metadata & Resource Sharing Coordinator
>>
>> Brandeis University
>>
>> Library & Technology Services
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> 781.736.4649
>>
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>
>


-- 
Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
Data Management & Access, University Libraries
University of Minnesota
160 Wilson Library
309 19th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Ph: 612-625-2328
Fx: 612-625-3428
ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242