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Adam:  I guess that instead of "still not supported by RDA" was "still not called for by RDA", in that RDA is not calling for a CCT at all.  Yes, if you're going to use a CCT, then there are lots of choices of qualifiers, and the title proper is just as valid as the date of publication.  But RDA isn't calling for a CCT at all—if the resource already has a title.

 

Kevin

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 6:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one

 

Kevin,

 

I don’t disagree with anything that you’ve written, except that I wonder why say the access points in group 2) are not supported by RDA?  If you have two collections of selections with different contents then there is a conflict with the preferred title “Short stories. Selections” and RDA says that you break the conflict between two works with the same title by the same creator by adding date of work, place of creation of work, form of work, and/or other distinguishing characteristic of the work.  Adding the collection manifestation title is an example of adding other distinguishing characteristic. 

 

Adam

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 3:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: When one compilation-work becomes a different one

 

What I see as being the problem here is an attempt to carry over AACR traditions into RDA.  We have a long-standing tradition of using CCTs for complete works, and for many (but most definitely not all) selective collections of works.  That tradition was developed for the predominant technologies of the time (book and card catalogs) and, I would argue, seems to have been designed to serve the needs of scholars more than casual library users.  The CCTs served to arrange the catalog so that all of the resources by a given author would be sorted into groups:  the complete works together, the complete works in a certain form together, the collections of selected works together, etc.

 

I do not believe that is really the function that RDA intends the Authorized Access Point to be.  For complete works, I think perhaps someone could make an argument that the complete works of a creator make up a theoretical monolithic "work", and so each different published version would then constitute an expression of that theoretical work.  The preferred title "Works" is clear and unambiguous, so it can serve reasonably well to identify the nature of the resource.  When the users see the title "Works", that title tells them with a reasonable amount of certainty that the resource contains everything by the given creator.  One instance of "Works" is more than likely to serve their needs just as well as any other instance of "Works"—and if it doesn't, we provide other information as well to lead them to the desired specific resource.  So I could see some merit in an argument to ignore some of the words in RDA and use "Works" as the preferred title for any resource purporting to be the complete works, even if it has its own title that it has been published under.

 

But selected works are an entirely different matter.  You can pretty much guarantee that one instance of "Selections" is not the same as another instance of "Selections", and will not meet the user's needs.  What, then, is the point of assigning the CCT "Selections"?  In order to have any meaning to the user, it's going to have to get qualified by the title that the collection really is named by.  If we need to add that title as a qualifier, then why in the world are we using "Selections" to begin with?  Consider the following:

 

1)      The prevailing (mis-)interpretation of RDA would give us:

 

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (1978)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (1982)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (2010)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (2015)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (2016)

 

What user is going to make sense of that?  So, a slightly better suggestion, still not supported by RDA, would give us:

 

2)      King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (Bazaar of bad dreams)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (Descendants)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (Different seasons)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (Full dark, no stars)

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Short stories. Selections (Night shift)

 

Well, that at least gives the user the information they're really expecting.  But it's filled with a whole bunch of other stuff.  What RDA actually calls for is:

 

3)      King, Stephen, 1947- . Bazaar of bad dreams

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Descendants

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Different seasons

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Full dark, no stars

                King, Stephen, 1947- . Night shift

 

RDA 6.2 is about identifying the works contained in the resource being described.  In 6.2.2.10, we're referred to 6.2.2.4-6.2.2.7 if the collection has a title.  The biggest problem here is that RDA says "commonly identified by a title or form of title in resources embodying that compilation or in reference sources" and catalogers are confusing the phrase "commonly identified" with the idea that "If the title is not supported by citations in two or more independent scholarly resources showing this to be the title that the world generally knows the collection by, then we can't assume anybody really knows it by this title—forget the fact that it has never been published under any other title."  Yet that statement seems to be how many (most?) catalogers are interpreting RDA.  If we can't assume the collection Bazaar of bad dreams (published in 2015) is "commonly identified" by its title, how can we assume that the novel Finders Keepers (also published in 2015) is "commonly identified" by its title?  The guideline for choosing the preferred title of a single work is the same as for a collection:  we choose "the title or form of title in the original language by which the work is commonly identified either through use in resources embodying the work or in reference sources."  If 6.2.2.4 and 6.2.2.10 are not saying the same thing, please someone explain to me what the difference is!

 

In 6.2.2.10.1 and 6.2.2.10.2, we're told to use CCTs for collections of complete works or complete works in a single form, when the compilation does not have a collective title.  For collections of some but not all, we're told to use use the titles of each individual work included; or, as an alternative, a CCT with "Selections".  This alternative avoids having to give five, ten, or 300 individual preferred titles.  When assigning a CCT to a resource that already has its own collective title, we are doing nothing to help the user identify the resource.  All we are doing is assigning a title that will fit the AAP into a single kind of bibliographical listing.  Such access points may certainly have a very good function; as VAPs I think they would be very valuable.  But as AAPs, I fail to see their value.  They identify the resource in a way that probably looks strange to the user; they obscure more than they enlighten.

 

Kevin M. Randall

Principal Serials Cataloger

Northwestern University Libraries

Northwestern University

www.library.northwestern.edu

[log in to unmask]

847.491.2939

 

Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yang Wang
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 3:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one

 

Steve:

 

Yes, to be frank, I am reading 6.2.2.10.3 basically the same way. It is difficult for me to regard a compilation like “Las Negras” as a having a “commonly known title” in the same way as I think of the trilogy of Orestea by Aeschylus.  The title of the latter can be found in all sorts of reference books and other resources. It is therefore essential to establish the Name/Title as “Aeschylus. ‡t Oresteia” (ARN4417723=LCCN no 97050641).  Various compilations of poems by Horace, such as Odes, Epodes, Satires (Sermones), Epistles, have “less commonly known” as well as “commonly known” titles,  for which, obviously, preferred titles must be established. So, I do use the first instruction of 6.2.2.10 when cataloging such  compilations, taking into account the long history of textual transmission.

 

LC/PCC instruction for 6.2.2.10.3 provides us a guideline for treating a compilation of “more than two works” which I find both useful and logical, but somewhat limiting in that it does not seem to encourage the use of “parenthetical qualifiers.” In an earlier message, I expressed my preference to using such a qualifier:  100 1# Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. $t Short stories. $k Selections (Golpes de gracia) (ARN10333589 =LCCN no2015159874). The original title Golpes de gracia is still there and is easily searchable in the bib (245) and in the authority file (400). The advantage of doing this, instead of a generic “Short stories. Selections,” is multifaceted and far-reaching, as I mentioned previously. So, I don’t see why we cannot construct a preferred title like 100 1# Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. $t Short stories. $k Selections (Las negras), instead of a nondescript Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. $t Negras, the former being more descriptive and precise than the latter.

 

English cataloging institutions would benefit from having this type of conventional collective titles when dealing with non-Latin materials (Arabic, Persian, Hebrew, CJK, etc.). From a user’s perspective, when doing a Name/Title search under a specific author, one could clearly identify at first sight what these compilations are. For catalogers, it means that each new compilation would have to have a new N/T authority record. More NACO work, to be sure, but more benefit for all. That was the intent of my original message.    

 

Yang    

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of McDonald, Stephen
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one

 

If you are applying 6.2.2.10.1 and 6.2.2.10.2 that way, why aren’t you also applying 6.2.2.10.3 the same way?  The wording is the same.  And if you do that, you are essentially saying that you never use the first instruction of 6.2.2.10, which says to use the title the collection is known by as the preferred title.

 

6.2.2.10 is quite clear to me.  If there is a title that the collection is known by (not merely the title of a specific Expression, but a title used for the entire collection as a Work regardless of publisher), use that as the preferred title.  Only if that is not true do you go on to look at 6.2.2.10.1 through 6.2.2.10.3.

 

This does not apply in the case you cite of the Penguin Complete Sherlock Holmes.  Other complete collections of Sherlock Holmes do not use that name, and therefore it cannot be considered the preferred title for the collection.

 

                                                                           Steve McDonald

                                                                           [log in to unmask]

 

 

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yang Wang
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 5:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one

 

Well, let’s see.

 

Regarding 6.2.2.10.1 or 6.2.2.10.2,  it’s not really a simple conditional, is it? It reads more like “unless” or “except if …” (that is, when dealing with “Complete works” or “works in a single form”).

 

Would you treat, say, the commonly known “The Penguin complete Sherlock Holmes” as preferred title and establish it in NAF as “100 1# Doyle, Arthur Conan, 1959-1930. Penguin complete Sherlock Holmes”? Or, you wouldn’t even establish it in NAF, since the compilation has a unique title (commonly identified as such) in field 245 in the bib?

 

Likewise, Die Briefe an Gräfin Sizzo : 1921-1926 (a commonly known compilation; by Rainer Maria Rilke) would have “100 1# Rilke, Rainer Maria, 1875-1926. Briefe an Gräfin Sizzo” instead of “Rilke, Rainer Maria, 1875-1926. Correspondence. Selections (…)”as an AAP?

 

Yang