I agree with Adam's point about possibly needing a qualifier for "Negras," but would note that none of the stories in either of the versions of the collection titled "Las negras" includes a story with that title, and that the collection title relates to the overall theme of the stories. So in this case, there's no reason yet to add a qualifier. Stephen On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Adam L. Schiff <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Stephen wrote: > "If for some reason I did choose to create a NAR for this title, I would > be inclined to choose Negras as the Preferred title. The Work AAP would > then be Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. Negras." > Not so fast! If there is a short story also with the same title, you have > a conflict that needs to be resolved. The collection AAP would need a > qualifier, e.g. > Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. Negras (Collection) > or > Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. Negras (Anthology) > --Adam Schiff > University of Washington Libraries > _____________________________ > From: McDonald, Stephen <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 10:38 AM > Subject: Re: When one compilation-work becomes a different one > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > [I am deleting a lot of the earlier discussion in the thread, to keep > article size down] > > > > Yang, > > > > Again, you are confusing the Preferred Title with the Authorized Access > Point. The Preferred Title does not have to be distinguished from other > Preferred Titles. It is the rules for Authorized Access Points (6.27) > which detail how to add qualifiers to Preferred Titles to create AAPs. > Preferred Titles themselves do not include qualifiers, ever. Preferred > Titles can conflict with other Preferred Titles. > > > > I will assume you are actually asking about Authorized Access Points, > rather than Preferred Title. I do not have this particular title in hand. > But based on what I know so far, my first instinct would be to not even > bother making a Work NAR for the collection—the same decision as you find > in OCLC #809833452. If I have no reason to believe that any of the short > stories in the collection have previously been published separately, there > is really no need to create an NAR for the Work, just as there is no need > to create NARs for most monographs. That may change in the future as we > move toward Bibframe, but right now, I don’t need to create an NAR. The > Preferred Title would be the 245$a field, and the AAP would be the 100 plus > 245$a. > > > > If for some reason I did choose to create a NAR for this title, I would be > inclined to choose Negras as the Preferred title. The Work AAP would then > be Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. Negras. Again, there is no reason to believe > these stories have been published separately, so their entire existence is > part of this collective Work. The component stories have not been compiled > from other sources; there is no reason not to treat it as a coherent whole. > > > > If one or more of the stories had been published previously in a different > collection or singly, I would check whether this is the first time this set > of stories have been published as a compilation. If the compilation has > had other names, then I would almost certainly use a conventional > collective title. Next I would ask myself, “If a reference source talks > about this collection, would they use a particular name for it? If they > do, would they be talking about this particular Expression, or about a > conceptual collection of these stories, i.e. the compilation as a Work?” > If I decide that the collection does have a name that it is known by _*as > a Work*_, I would use that as my Preferred Title and base my AAP on that > title. As I noted above, if this is a collection of original stories not > previously published, I would probably decide that this collection would > continue to be known by that name. > > > > If I choose to use a conventional collective title, and the author has > written other things besides short stories, then the Preferred Title would > be Short Stories. Selections. The AAP would then be Arroyo Pizarro, > Yolanda. Short Stories. Selections, probably with a parenthetical > qualifier. (The LC-PCC PS says to not predict conflict, but I probably > would add a qualifier even if there were no other collections by this > author with that conventional collective title). I could use Negras as the > parenthetical qualifier, but I would be more likely to use the date. There > are numerous other possible qualifiers. > > > > If I chose Negras as the qualifier, there would still be no conflict with > a short story by that same name. The Work AAP for the collection would be > “Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. Short Stories. Selections (Negras)”, while the > AAP for the short story would be “Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. Negras.” They > are clearly distinct AAPs. > > > > As for your question about Orestea: if the 240 field is “Orestea”, it > represents part of the AAP for the compilation; the full AAP is the 100 > plus 240. Since the 240 does not include qualifiers, it also happens to > represent the Preferred Title of the compilation. If the 240 were > “Godzilla (1989)”, then the Preferred Title is “Godzilla”, without the > qualifier. MARC is not designed for RDA. RDA requires both the AAP and > the Preferred Title to be recorded, but MARC does not have separate fields > for Preferred Title and AAP. Instead, the 1xx plus 240 or 245 represent > the AAP, and the Preferred Title is merely part of the 240 or 245. > > > > > Steve McDonald > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] > GOV <[log in to unmask]>]*On Behalf Of *Yang Wang > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 02, 2016 11:25 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one > > > > Yes, we were discussing “how to construct a Preferred Title.” I used the > Name/Title AAPs for the purpose of illustration. When “Orestea” is in 240 > field in the bib, does it represent preferred title of the compilation? > > > > As for qualifiers, if “Les negras” also happened to be the title of a > short story in the compilation, what would you choose for the “preferred > title” for the compilation? How would you distinguish one from the other? > > > > Yang > > > > *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] > GOV <[log in to unmask]>]*On Behalf Of *McDonald, Stephen > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 02, 2016 10:45 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one > > > > You are confusing the Preferred Title with the Authorized Access Point. > We were discussing 6.2.2.10, which describes how to construct a Preferred > Title. Preferred Titles do not include distinguishing qualifiers—those are > added when constructing Authorized Access Points. See 6.27 for the rules > for constructing Authorized Access Points from Preferred Titles. > > > > > Steve McDonald > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] > GOV <[log in to unmask]>]*On Behalf Of *Yang Wang > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 4:21 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] When one compilation-work becomes a different one > > > > Steve: > > > > Yes, to be frank, I am reading 6.2.2.10.3 basically the same way. It is > difficult for me to regard a compilation like “Las Negras” as a having a > “commonly known title” in the same way as I think of the trilogy of > *Orestea* by Aeschylus. The title of the latter can be found in all > sorts of reference books and other resources. It is therefore essential to > establish the Name/Title as “Aeschylus. ‡t Oresteia” (ARN4417723=LCCN no > 97050641). Various compilations of poems by Horace, such as Odes, Epodes, > Satires (Sermones), Epistles, have “less commonly known” as well as > “commonly known” titles, for which, obviously, preferred titles must be > established. So, I do use the first instruction of 6.2.2.10 when cataloging > such compilations, taking into account the long history of textual > transmission. > > > > LC/PCC instruction for 6.2.2.10.3 provides us a guideline for treating a > compilation of “more than two works” which I find both useful and logical, > but somewhat limiting in that it does not seem to encourage the use of > “parenthetical qualifiers.” In an earlier message, I expressed my > preference to using such a qualifier: 100 1#Arroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. $t > Short stories. $k Selections (Golpes de gracia) (ARN10333589 =LCCNno2015159874). > The original title*Golpes de gracia* is still there and is easily > searchable in the bib (245) and in the authority file (400). The advantage > of doing this, instead of a generic “Short stories. Selections,” is > multifaceted and far-reaching, as I mentioned previously. So, I don’t see > why we cannot construct a preferred title like 100 1# Arroyo Pizarro, > Yolanda. $t Short stories. $k Selections (Las negras), instead of a > nondescriptArroyo Pizarro, Yolanda. $t Negras, the former being more > descriptive and precise than the latter. > > > > English cataloging institutions would benefit from having this type of > conventional collective titles when dealing with non-Latin materials > (Arabic, Persian, Hebrew, CJK, etc.). From a user’s perspective, when doing > a Name/Title search under a specific author, one could clearly identify at > first sight what these compilations are. For catalogers, it means that each > new compilation would have to have a new N/T authority record. More NACO > work, to be sure, but more benefit for all. That was the intent of my > original message. > > > > Yang > > > -- Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist Data Management & Access, University Libraries University of Minnesota 160 Wilson Library 309 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 Ph: 612-625-2328 Fx: 612-625-3428 ORCID: 0000-0002-3590-1242