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We also need better indexing and searching capabilities for the data we have. For bibliographic searching, I can easily limit a search to a year or range of years. If I want to find the John Smiths born between 1837 and 1850 I should be able to do the same thing if dates are encoded in an 046. Perhaps I've missed the boat, but is there a way to do this? If not, why are putting this information in? Christopher D. Cook Special Collections Cataloging Coordinator The Ohio State University On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Stephen Hearn <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > The real problem is reliance on an authorized access point or variant as > summary information about a person. The AAP is too brief for identification > purposes. I agree with Mary Charles Lasater that multiplying these > inadequate nomens is not our best course. > > We need instead a paradigm shift toward thinking about the information > associated with an identity as constellated data to be displayed with the > preferred name in a different model of indexing--not just a list of > preformulated access points each of which must be examined, but a > concatenation of useful facts about the person already displayed in the > initial search response, just like most brief displays of bib records > consist of a concatenation of useful facts about the resource. > > When system are better able to use domain-specified identifiers to compare > and collocate records and to use the full extent of the authority file's > specified data elements to enable identification, we'll all be better off. > > (Is there an irony that after a long and lively career in authority > control I find myself advocating for the end of the authorized access > point? Yes, there is, and it's ... delicious.) > > Stephen > > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Amy Turner <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> I think that controlled use of this sort of variant would make searching >> easier rather than more difficult. With common names, one often encounters >> a long list of the same name with different dates, and it takes a while to >> determine which (if any) is the one sought. References such as Smith, John >> (artist) to Smith, John, 1957- would be useful. As someone else has >> pointed out, proliferation of variants such as artist, illustrator and >> painter would be messy. >> >> >> >> As for the case when there is a 400 that we need to use as a 100, we >> could change the 400 to a 500. >> >> >> >> Amy Turner (also close to retirement) >> >> >> >> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] >> OV] *On Behalf Of *Lasater, Mary Charles >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2017 8:17 AM >> >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier? >> >> >> >> All, >> >> >> >> Not only is it excessive, but it makes searching for the correct ‘entity’ >> more difficult and makes it more difficult to qualify a name to make it >> ‘unique’. >> >> >> >> When I am trying to break a name off an undifferentiated authority record >> (consider ‘illustrator’ or ‘actor’), I often encounter another person >> with that ‘role.’ How would we handle an existing 400 field with that >> qualifying term, if we needed it for the 100 of the authority record we >> want to establish? >> >> >> >> It is fairly common for me to find a unique authority record already >> established for the entity I am trying to remove from the undifferentiated >> authority. The presence of the qualifiers makes the searching much more >> time consuming. >> >> >> >> My 2 cents, >> >> >> >> Mary Charles Lasater >> >> (counting down to retirement!) >> >> >> >> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] >> OV <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Moore, Richard >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2017 2:16 AM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier? >> >> >> >> It does seem a little excessive to create a proliferation of variant >> access points using the preferred name. Recording different occupations is >> the role of the 374 field. >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> ________________________ >> >> Richard Moore >> >> Authority Control Team Manager >> >> The British Library >> >> >> >> Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546104 <+44%201937%20546104> >> >> >> E-mail: [log in to unmask] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] >> OV <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Deborah J. Leslie >> *Sent:* 22 March 2017 17:10 >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier? >> >> >> >> From a practical point of view, I would discourage the proliferation of >> variant access points distinguished by qualifiers in the same general field >> or activity. "Painter" and "illustrator"? No. "Painter" and "accountant"? >> Possibly. >> >> >> >> Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library >> | [log in to unmask] | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC >> 20003 | 202.675-0369 <(202)%20675-0369> | orcid.org 0000-0001-5848-5467 >> >> >> >> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask] >> OV] *On Behalf Of *Robert Maxwell >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 March, 2017 13:00 >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier? >> >> >> >> >> >> At that point, I suppose it will be a matter of cataloger's judgment and >> any forthcoming changes to LC-PCC PS to encourage or discourage any >> particular variants. >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> Bob: And I hope there won’t be any such LC-PCC Policy Statements. A >> conscious decision was made at the beginning of RDA to leave the decision >> about whether to include variants or not up to the cataloger’s judgment. >> I’m in favor of leaving it that way. >> >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Noble, Richard <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> From an acting (not real, I just play one) NACO Coordinator: >> >> >> >> One of our catalogers is including/adding 400s differentiated only by a >> variant $c qualifiers for field of activity/profession, e.g. 100 with >> (Painter), 400 with (Illustrator), for the same form of name. Nothing like >> this in RDA 9.19.2, which, granted, does not abound with permutations of >> variation. >> >> >> >> Is this legit? I've seen (or can recall) no examples. >> >> >> >> RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY >> >> BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187 >> <(401)%20863-1187> >> >> <Richard_Noble@Br <[log in to unmask]>own.edu >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__own.edu&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=xRv0p16tsCCntaz7_A7XL4gPIFTZ1zDzdYRG8IXLtvs&e=> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> Matthew C. Haugen >> Rare Book Cataloger >> 102 Butler Library >> Columbia University Libraries >> E-mail: [log in to unmask] >> Phone: 212-851-2451 <(212)%20851-2451> >> >> >> >> ************************************************************ >> ****************************************************** >> >> Experience the British Library online at www.bl.uk >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bl.uk_&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=83pMA3lAVuNxoDcQvju6wfZUUfPqfcZpUxW-oqLIMFw&e=> >> >> The British Library’s latest Annual Report and Accounts : >> www.bl.uk/aboutus/annrep/index.html >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bl.uk_aboutus_annrep_index.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=ue4VSreznBBbbpvP1Qc0aPHSfimbf1qe0bx9u-LMjqo&e=> >> >> Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge. Adopt a Book. >> www.bl.uk/adoptabook >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bl.uk_adoptabook&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=nRQWhQE7sh6Ec6CDr3JsMZoVTGi9I9Tkve6AXmX2j1c&e=> >> >> The Library's St Pancras site is WiFi - enabled >> >> ************************************************************ >> ***************************************************** >> >> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be >> legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are >> not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the >> [log in to unmask] : The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or >> copied without the sender's consent. >> >> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the >> author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The >> British Library does not take any responsibility for the views of the >> author. >> >> ************************************************************ >> ***************************************************** >> >> Think before you print >> > > > > -- > Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist > Data Management & Access, University Libraries > University of Minnesota > 160 Wilson Library > 309 19th Avenue South > Minneapolis, MN 55455 > Ph: 612-625-2328 <(612)%20625-2328> > Fx: 612-625-3428 <(612)%20625-3428> > ORCID: 0000-0002-3590-1242 >