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We also need better indexing and searching capabilities for the data we
have. For bibliographic searching, I can easily limit a search to a year or
range of years. If I want to find the John Smiths born between 1837 and
1850 I should be able to do the same thing if dates are encoded in an 046.
Perhaps I've missed the boat, but is there a way to do this? If not, why
are putting this information in?

Christopher D. Cook
Special Collections Cataloging Coordinator
The Ohio State University

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Stephen Hearn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The real problem is reliance on an authorized access point or variant as
> summary information about a person. The AAP is too brief for identification
> purposes. I agree with Mary Charles Lasater that multiplying these
> inadequate nomens is not our best course.
>
> We need instead a paradigm shift toward thinking about the information
> associated with an identity as constellated data to be displayed with the
> preferred name in a different model of indexing--not just a list of
> preformulated access points each of which must be examined, but a
> concatenation of useful facts about the person already displayed in the
> initial search response, just like most brief displays of bib records
> consist of a concatenation of useful facts about the resource.
>
> When system are better able to use domain-specified identifiers to compare
> and collocate records and to use the full extent of the authority file's
> specified data elements to enable identification, we'll all be better off.
>
> (Is there an irony that after a long and lively career in authority
> control I find myself advocating for the end of the authorized access
> point? Yes, there is, and it's ... delicious.)
>
> Stephen
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Amy Turner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I think that controlled use of this sort of variant would make searching
>> easier rather than more difficult.  With common names, one often encounters
>> a long list of the same name with different dates, and it takes a while to
>> determine which (if any) is the one sought.  References such as Smith, John
>> (artist) to Smith, John, 1957- would be useful.  As someone else has
>> pointed out, proliferation of variants such as artist, illustrator and
>> painter would be messy.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for the case when there is a 400 that we need to use as a 100, we
>> could change the 400 to a 500.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amy Turner (also close to retirement)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> OV] *On Behalf Of *Lasater, Mary Charles
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2017 8:17 AM
>>
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier?
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Not only is it excessive, but it makes searching for the correct ‘entity’
>> more difficult and makes it more difficult to qualify a name to make it
>> ‘unique’.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I am trying to break a name off an undifferentiated authority record
>> (consider  ‘illustrator’ or ‘actor’), I often encounter another person
>> with that ‘role.’ How would we handle an existing 400 field with that
>> qualifying term, if we needed it for the 100 of the authority record we
>> want to establish?
>>
>>
>>
>> It is fairly common for me to find a unique authority record already
>> established for the entity I am trying to remove from the undifferentiated
>> authority. The presence of the qualifiers makes the searching much more
>> time consuming.
>>
>>
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mary Charles Lasater
>>
>> (counting down to retirement!)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> OV <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Moore, Richard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2017 2:16 AM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier?
>>
>>
>>
>> It does seem a little excessive to create a proliferation of variant
>> access points using the preferred name. Recording different occupations is
>> the role of the 374 field.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________
>>
>> Richard Moore
>>
>> Authority Control Team Manager
>>
>> The British Library
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546104 <+44%201937%20546104>
>>
>>
>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> OV <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Deborah J. Leslie
>> *Sent:* 22 March 2017 17:10
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier?
>>
>>
>>
>> From a practical point of view, I would discourage the proliferation of
>> variant access points distinguished by qualifiers in the same general field
>> or activity. "Painter" and "illustrator"? No. "Painter" and "accountant"?
>> Possibly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library
>> | [log in to unmask] | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC
>> 20003 | 202.675-0369 <(202)%20675-0369> | orcid.org 0000-0001-5848-5467
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> OV] *On Behalf Of *Robert Maxwell
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 March, 2017 13:00
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] 400 for variant $c qualifier?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At that point, I suppose it will be a matter of cataloger's judgment and
>> any forthcoming changes to LC-PCC PS to encourage or discourage any
>> particular variants.
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob: And I hope there won’t be any such LC-PCC Policy Statements. A
>> conscious decision was made at the beginning of RDA to leave the decision
>> about whether to include variants or not up to the cataloger’s judgment.
>> I’m in favor of leaving it that way.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Noble, Richard <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> From an acting (not real, I just play one) NACO Coordinator:
>>
>>
>>
>> One of our catalogers is including/adding 400s differentiated only by a
>> variant $c qualifiers for field of activity/profession, e.g. 100 with
>> (Painter), 400 with (Illustrator), for the same form of name. Nothing like
>> this in RDA 9.19.2, which, granted, does not abound with permutations of
>> variation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this legit? I've seen (or can recall) no examples.
>>
>>
>>
>> RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY
>>
>> BROWN UNIVERSITY  ::  PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912  ::  401-863-1187
>> <(401)%20863-1187>
>>
>> <Richard_Noble@Br <[log in to unmask]>own.edu
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__own.edu&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=xRv0p16tsCCntaz7_A7XL4gPIFTZ1zDzdYRG8IXLtvs&e=>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Matthew C. Haugen
>> Rare Book Cataloger
>> 102 Butler Library
>> Columbia University Libraries
>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> Phone: 212-851-2451 <(212)%20851-2451>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************************************
>> ******************************************************
>>
>> Experience the British Library online at www.bl.uk
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bl.uk_&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=83pMA3lAVuNxoDcQvju6wfZUUfPqfcZpUxW-oqLIMFw&e=>
>>
>> The British Library’s latest Annual Report and Accounts :
>> www.bl.uk/aboutus/annrep/index.html
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bl.uk_aboutus_annrep_index.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=ue4VSreznBBbbpvP1Qc0aPHSfimbf1qe0bx9u-LMjqo&e=>
>>
>> Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge. Adopt a Book.
>> www.bl.uk/adoptabook
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bl.uk_adoptabook&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=Dc2zJWQZhGVM4krkr2m4NTiSqZ5Ld3IvJ8wM_1HzJMc&m=ayryebl9O8U5gqQa8qOZpNpwmo7Hjjeyav2UEIEldoI&s=nRQWhQE7sh6Ec6CDr3JsMZoVTGi9I9Tkve6AXmX2j1c&e=>
>>
>> The Library's St Pancras site is WiFi - enabled
>>
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>> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the
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>>
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>>
>> Think before you print
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
> Data Management & Access, University Libraries
> University of Minnesota
> 160 Wilson Library
> 309 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> Ph: 612-625-2328 <(612)%20625-2328>
> Fx: 612-625-3428 <(612)%20625-3428>
> ORCID:  0000-0002-3590-1242
>