<<John Haley's use of a stable electronic keyboard is good if, in fact, the tuning is A-440.>> Yes, Corey, it is exactly that. I checked it with (what else) my Korg tuner! Best, John On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Corey Bailey <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I will second Steve's use of a tuner to verify pitch. I use a chromatic > tuner to verify pitch when the mains frequency isn't that available on the > recording (and, even when it is). I have relative pitch having been a > record engineer and mixer for many years but I still use a reference to > check myself. John Haley's use of a stable electronic keyboard is good if, > in fact, the tuning is A-440. I will also use my youngest son when he's > available because he's a classically trained guitarist and can easily call > out the key and the tuning by ear. > > Cheers! > > Corey > Corey Bailey Audio Engineering > www.baileyzone.net > > On 4/24/2017 7:15 PM, Steve Smolian wrote: > >> The new technology supplies a different solution. I now use a Technics >> SL-1200-2 with KAB's modification that adds the 78 rpm speed, replacing >> SP-15 with its push button incremental speed adjustment. The 1200-2 uses a >> slider with a detent for 78, 33 or 45, depending on the chosen basic speed. >> >> I run a Korg guitar tuner (about $ 50) and use the1200-2's slider to >> change record speed while it is playing. I choose a pre-tuned rather than >> variable instrument- a woodwind or piano, not a voice or violin, if >> possible. The tuner works by listening to your speakers. >> >> When the record is playing at a speed at which the tuner's needle >> stabilizes at zero, I've adjusted the speed to a definite half-step at >> A-440 (the frequency of the tuner can be adjusted to 435 or whatever you >> like.) It's easy enough to make a second pass at a half step higher and/or >> lower as well and record all three, should you wish to do so. >> >> The crucial step beforehand is to center the record. I had a machine >> shop grind down the spindle 1/16th and move the edge of the record with my >> fingernail until the cartridge no longer swings. I also had made a metal >> sleeve that fits over the spindle that restores the original diameter. The >> machine shop behind my studio made this. The spindle mechanism for the >> 1200-2 is about $ 60. It's a bit tricky to swap out the original spindle >> with the replacement, so I paid a technician to do this. Another $ 50. I >> believe Dave Cawley offers one of these. >> >> Among other things, this process bypasses the Continental 78 rpm and U.S. >> 78.26 speed issue. >> >> Mr. Cawley has back-ordered an outrigger for the 1200-2 that will >> accommodate my old but recently internally rewired SME 16" arm that will >> replace the 12" one Technics sup[plied. >> >> This process does not affect stylus choice, but, if you come to this >> year's ARSC conference this year, my talk Saturday includes an important >> disclosure regarding that issue. >> >> Anyone want to by a few not-recently-used pitch pipes? SP-15s? >> >> If you need a digital readout of the speed you use for your metadata, >> products are available to do this at about $ 300. >> >> As I do not have perfect pitch, I find this process very much more >> efficient. The remaining problem is adjusting a record side that changes >> speed while playing. >> >> Steve Smolian >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto: >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Haley >> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:12 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm >> >> Ben, >> >> The advice is all pertinent, but here's some simpler advice. A great >> many >> 78's do not play at 78 or 78.26 RPM. They are irregular, and it is >> always best to check the pitch and correct it by ear. I use a Yamaha >> electronic piano that has pitch at exactly A= 440, top dead center. With >> careful listening, you can hear very, very small pitch differences--not >> really that hard. This is far more reliable than trying to figure it out >> based on playback speed, with all the charts and math. At best, that will >> just give you a good jumping off place. >> Getting the pitch right is VERY important. A quarter tone off >> drastically changes the sound of most voices and a great many instruments. >> that can also can change the emotional character of the music quite a bit. >> Larger pitch variations can easily wreck everything. >> >> A different issue is: what is the right pitch? That is another lengthy >> discussion. >> >> Best, >> John Haley >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Corey Bailey<[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> The original question was posted from someone in the US. So yes, all >>> of the (very interesting) answers were based on "US-centered" speeds. >>> >>> Corey >>> Corey Bailey Audio Engineering >>> www.baileyzone.net >>> >>> >>> On 4/24/2017 3:42 PM, George Brock-Nannestad wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> all very US-centered, isn't it? The 78.26 comes from a certain number >>>> of poles in a synchronous motor combined with simple ratios in the >>>> gearbox that changes the rpm from the motor to the target rpm for the >>>> turntable. But it is only this figure at 60 Hz mains frequency. If >>>> you had a slow-speed synchronous motor run off 60 Hz the closest to >>>> 78.00 is 78.26 rpm. If you use a stroboscope for >>>> 60 Hz >>>> under a 120 Hz light (goes for fluorescent or low-power incandescent >>>> lamps off the mains), you can only get a stationary ring at 78.26. >>>> >>>> In the not insignificant parts of the world where they use 50 Hz as >>>> the mains frequency, the corresponding figure would be 77.92 rpm. You >>>> need a different stroboscope for this and also the slow-speed >>>> synchronous motor would have a different number of poles. Aida >>>> Favia-Artsay knew, and her Caruso stroboscopes came in both >>>> varieties. >>>> >>>> The Victor Talking Machine Company is on record in the acoustic >>>> period as specifying 76 rpm for recording and 78 rpm for reproduction >>>> of the recording obtained. Some of their customers obviously did not >>>> have absolute pitch. >>>> In the >>>> acoustic period of the Gramophone Company, the speed was checked >>>> every morning by means of a piece of cigarette paper under the wax >>>> while cutting and counting the revolutions for a minute. They >>>> preferred 78 rpm! >>>> >>>> In the United Kingdom, the Old Philharmonic Pitch (which corresponded >>>> to an a4 of 452 Hz (give or take a few) survived in the military >>>> bands until ca. >>>> 1926, >>>> when they also changed to the New Philharmonic Pitch at 439 Hz. If >>>> you hear Nellie Melba sing accompanied by the Band of the Coldstream >>>> Guards in >>>> 1905 with >>>> the key indicated, you can pitch it absolutely correctly when you >>>> play >>>> it: they >>>> used the Old Philharmonic Pitch. Columbia recorded a lot of military >>>> bands, and they abandoned the 80 rpm speed for 78 rpm at around the >>>> same time the bands changed tuning. The interesting thing is that the >>>> fraction 78/80 is very nearly the same as the fraction 439/452, in >>>> other words if you played a Columbia band record in 1932 you would >>>> not know whether it was an early recording slowed down to 78 or >>>> whether it was actually a new recording with the new pitch and the >>>> new speed. This is what I habitually in my workshops call "the >>>> dialectic >>>> triangle: >>>> speed, key, and standard pitch". >>>> >>>> I rarely comment these days, but this issue is very important. >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> >>>> George >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 78.26 did not become a standard speed until electric motors were >>>>> used in cutter and playback turntables. In the acoustic era, 78 >>>>> usually meant 78.00. >>>>> But, if you´re using a modern turntable like, say, a Technics SP-15, >>>>> 78 actually is 78.26, and the percentage of change must be >>>>> calculated from that. >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________ >>>>> >>>>> Gary Galo >>>>> Audio Engineer Emeritus >>>>> The Crane School of Music >>>>> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676 >>>>> >>>>> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener." >>>>> Arnold Schoenberg >>>>> >>>>> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed." >>>>> Igor Markevitch >>>>> >>>>> From: DAVID BURNHAM [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 6:05 PM >>>>> To: Gary A. Galo >>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm >>>>> >>>>> That's fine, but the standard speed for 78s IS 78.26; I don't know >>>>> if 80RPM records included a fraction. LPs, of course are always >>>>> based on 33 1/3 RPM, so there would be no reason to relate anything >>>>> to 33.00 RPM. I'm sure the original question was searching for a >>>>> corrective adjustment to adapt from standard 78 to Columbia's 80 >>>>> RPM, but that's only a guess. >>>>> >>>>> db >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2017 5:56 PM, Gary A. Galo >>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I specifically said 78.00 in my reply. I assumed that if you meant >>>>> 78.26, you would have said so. >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] >>>>> On Behalf Of DAVID BURNHAM >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 4:44 PM >>>>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm >>>>> >>>>> Are you basing that on 78.00 RPM or 78.26 RPM? >>>>> Not challenging you just a question. >>>>> db >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2017 4:18 PM, Gary A. Galo >>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A quarter tone is 3%, a half tone is 6%, and a whole tone is 12%. >>>>> So, the difference between 78.00 and 80 is just a hair under a >>>>> quarter tone. A quarter tone would be 80.34; a half tone is 82.68.. >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________ >>>>> >>>>> Gary Galo >>>>> Audio Engineer Emeritus >>>>> The Crane School of Music >>>>> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676 >>>>> >>>>> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener." >>>>> Arnold Schoenberg >>>>> >>>>> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed." >>>>> Igor Markevitch >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] >>>>> On Behalf Of James Roth >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 3:31 PM >>>>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] How many half-tones from 78 rpm to 80 rpm >>>>> >>>>> Hello everybody, >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone tell me how many half-tones up from 78 rpm to 80 rpm? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Ben Roth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >