Patience, they aren’t done inventing the system. MARC was originally designed for catalogue cards, using the pre-AACR cataloging standards. Not to be discouraging, but the LC Classification was started during the Roosevelt administration (Teddy’s, that is), and there is still one piece not finished. Rome wasn’t built in day, and neither will library metadata tools. ☺ Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section. This is not an official communication from my employer From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Benjamin A Abrahamse Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 11:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier I don’t disagree with any of this but I wonder why we cannot find a better way of indicating in a completely unambiguous manner whether a given authority refers to a FRBR:work or a FRBR:expression. 3xx $a Work $2 frbr 3xx $a Expression $2 frbr --Ben From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Early Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 10:06 AM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier Bob wrote: “… Whew. All that being said, “Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works $s (Lonergan Research Institute)” is a perfectly fine AAP at the expression level, but the presence or absence of subfield coding being the only clue that it’s at the expression level and not at the work level seems pretty thin to me and must be quite opaque to our users (if not most catalogers). (This comment applies to any work/expression AAP, not just ones involving the conventional collective title “Works”.) This is one reason I favor routinely including the language for textual expressions, even for original-language expressions: “Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works. $l English $s (Lonergan Research Institute)”. The inclusion of the language makes it completely clear that the AAP is for an expression, especially in the absence of any marker in the MARC authority format that explicitly distinguishes work-level authority records from expression-level authority records. ” I strongly agree with Bob! I suspect that there are more than a few catalogers, including NACO contributors, who are not yet able to intuitively distinguish between expression level and work level access points. _Always_ adding language to an expression level access point might seem tedious and redundant, but I think it may be necessary until the _majority_ of catalogers finally “get it.” Maybe in 10 years a task group can do a study and determine that $l (or the post-MARC equivalent) can be omitted from original language expression access points. But for now I believe: if it’s expression level, always include $l . Stephen T. Early Cataloger Center for Research Libraries 6050 S. Kenwood Chicago, IL 60637 773-955-4545 x326 [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> CRL website: www.crl.edu<http://www.crl.edu> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 7:44 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier Sorry I’m a bit late to the party. I agree with most of what’s been said this afternoon: 1. Yes, there can only be one RDA/FRBR work that represents the complete works (or purported complete works) of a single person, so an AAP with the preferred title “Works” will never need qualifying at the work level. 2. Therefore, qualification has to occur at the expression level, if the cataloger feels different versions need to be distinguished from each other. Note that if there is only one version, no qualifier (whether a date, or a parenthetical qualifier) is needed at all, except 3. As has been pointed out, if the complete works are presented as a series, it probably always needs some sort of qualification because the resulting 8XX indexing form in the bibliographic record doesn’t make much sense as “… $t Works ; $v v. 10” (given the possibility that there might be another non-series version out there) 4. All qualifiers (date of work, form, anything) at the work level are within parentheses with no subfield coding 5. All qualifiers at the expression level are preceded by some sort of subfield coding; they don’t all go in parentheses, it depends on what the qualifier is (e.g., date of expression does not go in parentheses) 6. So, Pete is correct, Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works (Lonergan Research Institute) is not correct, it needs subfield coding ($s, as Adam has pointed out) Whew. All that being said, “Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works $s (Lonergan Research Institute)” is a perfectly fine AAP at the expression level, but the presence or absence of subfield coding being the only clue that it’s at the expression level and not at the work level seems pretty thin to me and must be quite opaque to our users (if not most catalogers). (This comment applies to any work/expression AAP, not just ones involving the conventional collective title “Works”.) This is one reason I favor routinely including the language for textual expressions, even for original-language expressions: “Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works. $l English $s (Lonergan Research Institute)”. The inclusion of the language makes it completely clear that the AAP is for an expression, especially in the absence of any marker in the MARC authority format that explicitly distinguishes work-level authority records from expression-level authority records. It also clarifies to our users that the text is in a particular language. I realize that all that is necessary from an RDA standpoint is enough to distinguish the expression from all other expressions, which “(Lonergan Research Institute)” or a date do perfectly well, but our users do use the labels we attach to these things to help choose between resources or even decide to give a given resource a second look beyond the index. Bob Robert L. Maxwell Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 12:55 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier Pete, There should be $s in front of the parentheses. The qualifier that was added represents “other distinguishing characteristic of the expression” (RDA 6.12) and this addition is subfielded in $s. Adam Schiff University of Washington Libraries From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wilson, Pete Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:38 AM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier Stephen, I realize that the authority record, in both previous and current form, is for an expression. However, the formulation Works (Lonergan Research Institute) seems to imply that we have here a particular work distinguished by the qualifier “Lonergan Research Institute,” rather than an expression of the work simply CC-titled “Works.” That is why I think it is an incorrect formulation. I don’t think we can distinguish a particular expression of a work by appending a parenthetical qualifier (not separately subfielded) to the preferred title for the work, right? I think we can only distinguish a work from another work that way. Pete Wilson Vanderbilt University From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of McDonald, Stephen Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 1:07 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier Pete, You are mistaken. Both the old AAP and the new AAP are for an Expression, not the Work. The AAP for the Work is Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works, which does not currently have an authority record. Steve McDonald [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wilson, Pete Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 1:46 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: [PCCLIST] Queston about "Works" authority record with qualifier Hi folks, I am curious about a “Works” name-title authority record. The NACO authority with heading Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works. $f 1988 was recently changed to Lonergan, Bernard J. F. $t Works (Lonergan Research Institute) I don’t believe this is legitimate RDA usage, is it? My understanding is that there is only one “Works” work for each author, possibly with multiple expressions. The parenthetical qualifier here is at the work level, and thus distinguishes this “work” from other “works” that constitute the complete works of Lonergan. (Getting through these multiple senses of “work” is a lot of work.) That does not seem to be correct. Thanks! Pete Wilson Vanderbilt University