Thanks John, Regards Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s > Capstan will certainly to that, but so will Izotope RX. > > Best, > John > > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 6:38 PM, Tim Gillett <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> Then there's the problem of rotational speed changing between outer to >> inner grooves. It's harder for the disc cutter to maintain a constant >> rotational speed when cutting the outer grooves than the inner. It >> requires >> more torque cutting the outer groves. So typically the playback will >> start >> at one pitch and appear to lower in pitch (slow down) towards the inner >> grooves. I dont know how common this problem was in disc cutting in that >> era but I've observed it ocasionally repairing an old wind up acoustic >> gramophone. Of course it's harder to correct for such an error but I'd >> imagine today a product like Celemony Capstan or the equivalent Cedar >> product would make it a lot easier, though strictly they appear to be >> designed to correct wow and flutter. Others with experience with these >> tools will know more. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Haley" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 6:21 AM >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s >> >> >> >> The easiest way I have ever found to determine the pitch of a recording >> and >>> adjust it correctly is this. Just play along with the recording on an >>> electronic keyboard such as the Yamaha one I use, which has absolutely >>> perfect pitch--it reads "top dead center" on a Korg tuner. This will >>> tell >>> you instantly if the recording if at the same pitch, or higher or lower, >>> and you can easily hear very, very small pitch errors this way--they >>> become >>> quite apparent--way easier than trying to remember a pitch mentally. >>> Obviously I am just playing tunes and sometimes harmonies, not the whole >>> thing, and I am not making any effort to play anything well. This takes >>> hardly any keyboard skill, and it is far easier for me to hear what is >>> going on this way than using a Korg guitar tuner (which is itself way >>> better than nothing). Getting pitch right used to be such a >>> headache--now >>> it's a snap. I can do it in seconds. Such an electronic keyboard costs >>> something like $100. >>> >>> Plus, the keyboard is easily adjustable to other pitches--for instance, >>> where we know that an orchestra tunes to A = 442 or some other A besides >>> 440. >>> >>> Best, >>> John >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:28 PM, George Brock-Nannestad >>> <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, Terri and all, >>>> >>>> the question, as I read it, is not entirely clear to me. What is meant >>>> by >>>> "recordings in the 1920s were transferred to disc"? Would that indicate >>>> that >>>> recordings on cylinders -- a standard format in ethnomusicology until >>>> about >>>> 1940 -- would have been transferred to disc in the 1920s, OR that >>>> recordings >>>> from the 1920s (still on cylinders) have been transferred to LP (from >>>> the >>>> 1950s) or CD (from about 1985)? This involves two stages of recording: >>>> 1st >>>> on >>>> cylinder, and 2nd onto the next medium, playing the cylinder. There may >>>> certainly be problems in the transfer from cylinder to next medium. The >>>> early >>>> ethnomusicologists (from the time the field was called "comparative >>>> musicology") knew this, and this is why they frequently sounded a pitch >>>> pipe >>>> before each take. If this pitch is reproduced correctly in the next >>>> medium, the >>>> whole recording is correct as concerns pitch. >>>> >>>> Most commenters have talked about disc recording, but these did not >>>> become >>>> really important for ethnomusicological sound collection before the >>>> 1930s >>>> (John >>>> Lomax and Laura Boulton were typical representatives). The Library of >>>> Congress >>>> started transferring their Densmore cylinders to 78 rpm vinyl discs in >>>> the >>>> 1940s. >>>> >>>> I am worried about the 1938 Presto lathe that apparently cuts 7% slow >>>> with >>>> the >>>> cutter on the virgin disc. This how I interpret that the playback of >>>> the >>>> record >>>> just cut is 7% sharp, all provided that the Presto turntable is used >>>> with a >>>> pickup-arm for reproducing the disc just cut. And this would indicate >>>> an >>>> underpowered motor. Otherwise the reason could be that the speed of the >>>> reproducing turntable is too fast. >>>> >>>> Concerning discs I agree completely with John Haley at Mon, 22 Jan 2018 >>>> 11:57:30. And I have used the approach recommended by Steve Smolian >>>> since >>>> 1981, >>>> and I am on my 4th Korg right now, although it is called a Chromatic >>>> Tuner >>>> with >>>> no string preferences. If you would like to know more about my version >>>> of >>>> this >>>> approach, Google will show the way. >>>> >>>> If someone is interested in digging deeper into acoustic recording as >>>> performed >>>> at the Victor Talking Machine Company and the Gramophone Company up to >>>> 1925, I >>>> would recommend my AES Conference Preprint from 1997: >>>> "The Objective Basis for the Production of High Quality Transfers from >>>> Pre-1925 >>>> Sound Recordings", AES Preprint No. 4610, 103nd Convention 1997 >>>> September >>>> 26-29, New York. This is free in electronic form to members of the >>>> Audio >>>> Engineering Society. I have noticed that it is being cited quite >>>> frequently in >>>> later years. >>>> >>>> I would be happy to provide greater detail, but in that case perhaps an >>>> off-list exchange would offend the fewest people. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> George >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------- >>>> From: Terri Brinegar <[log in to unmask]> >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Recording Process in 1920s >>>> Date sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:09:06 -0500 >>>> >>>> >>>> > Hello All, >>>> > >>>> > Can anyone tell me if recordings in the 1920s were transferred to >>>> > disc >>>> > at >>>> > exactly the same speed as they were recorded? In other words, if > >>>> someone >>>> is >>>> > singing an "F" pitch on the recording, is that the actual pitch sung >>>> > or >>>> > could the engineer possibly speed it up somehow, thus raising the > >>>> pitch? >>>> Not >>>> > sure if that was possible back then. >>>> > >>>> > Thank you! >>>> > >>>> > Terri Brinegar >>>> > PhD Candidate in Ethnomusicology >>>> > University of Florida >>>> > [log in to unmask] >>>> > [log in to unmask] >>>> >>>> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>