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Ann, I do think you have it right. Not all events are 111s in MARC, only those that are planned in advance, have staff, etc., but among these are fairs, sporting events, meetings, etc. These are established as corporate body name authorities. Other events like natural disasters, riots, fires, wars, etc. are established as subjects and generally coded as topical headings (150). I would agree the associated place is Vatican City. The council was held at the Basilica di San Pietro in Vaticano, according to the NAR for it, and that is located in Vatican City. Vatican City is an independent country, so I would not include another associated place for Rome. Adam ________________________________ From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Ann Heinrichs <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:25:48 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Can a conference be a group? Adam, Thank you for the embarrassment of riches--i.e., all those Olympic Games in the 373! So - let me make sure I have this right: * All meetings, events, races, world's fairs, etc. are 111s * All 111s are corporate bodies * All corporate bodies are groups * All groups are eligible for inclusion in the 373 One final quick question: Vatican II is an Associated Group for my nun. The Associated Place is Vatican City, which is surrounded by Italy, just as Lesotho is surrounded by South Africa. Am I right in believing that: A person associated with the 373 Vatican II would have Vatican City as an Associated Place (370 $f), but not necessarily Italy? Just as a person with an Associated Place of Lesotho would not also have an Associated Place of South Africa? Ann On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Adam L. Schiff <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: Here’s a few other examples of this kind of association: 100 1 Bolt, Usain, ǂd 1986- 370 Sherwood Content (Jamaica) 370 ǂc Jamaica ǂ2 naf 370 ǂe Kingston (Jamaica) ǂ2 naf 372 Running races ǂ2 lcsh 373 Olympic Games (28th : 2004 : Athens, Greece) ǂa Olympic Games (29th : 2008 : Beijing, China) ǂa Olympic Games (30th : 2012 : London, England) ǂa Olympic Games (31st : 2016 : Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) ǂ2 naf 374 Runners (Sports) ǂa Athletes ǂa Olympic athletes ǂ2 lcsh 100 1 Blair, Bonnie, ǂd 1964- 370 Cornwall on Hudson (N.Y.) ǂc United States ǂe Champaign (Ill.) ǂ2 naf 372 Speed skating ǂ2 lcsh 373 Olympic Winter Games (14th : 1984 : Sarajevo, Bosnia and Hercegovina) ǂa Olympic Winter Games (15th : 1988 : Calgary, Alta.) ǂa Olympic Winter Games (16th : 1992 : Albertville, France) ǂa Olympic Winter Games (17th : 1994 : Lillehammer, Norway) ǂ2 naf 374 Speed skaters ǂa Olympic athletes ǂ2 lcsh They each participated in four Olympics. Olympic games are events, coded 111 just as conferences/meetings are. Adam Schiff University of Washington Libraries From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 1:54 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Can a conference be a group? Ann, Since a conference is a corporate body and a corporate body is by definition a group of persons, I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t record one as an associated group. Bob Robert L. Maxwell Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568<tel:(801)%20422-5568> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ann Heinrichs Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Can a conference be a group? Hello, Colleagues - (Apologies to my funnel for duplicating this question.) I'm making a NAR for a nun who was president of the International Union of Religious Superiors and, as such, got to be an auditor at Vatican II. I would like to make Vatican II an associated group (373 $a), but the only thing is, Vatican II is a conference. Can I nevertheless put Vatican II into the 373 field? Thanks! -- Ann Heinrichs Metadata/Cataloging Librarian The Paul Bechtold Library Catholic Theological Union 5401 S. Cornell Ave.<https://maps.google.com/?q=5401+S.+Cornell+Ave.%0D+%0D+Chicago,+IL+60615&entry=gmail&source=g> Chicago, IL 60615<https://maps.google.com/?q=5401+S.+Cornell+Ave.%0D+%0D+Chicago,+IL+60615&entry=gmail&source=g> http://www.ctu.edu/library [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> -- Ann Heinrichs Metadata/Cataloging Librarian The Paul Bechtold Library Catholic Theological Union 5401 S. Cornell Ave. Chicago, IL 60615 http://www.ctu.edu/library [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>