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Okay I'll join the discussion as a lover of classical and folk and ethnic and who-knows-what-else. If I had to name just one composer whose music seemed the most consistently excellent I too would choose JS Bach. As I age I appreciate him more and more and marvel at how he works phrases and overall structure. Of course the great works by Mozart and Beethoven are marvelous too. I have also been listening more to and admiring the Haydn piano sonatas (I recently bought the complete set by John McCabe). Thanks. Gene [log in to unmask] On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:39 AM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > John, > > Enjoyed your comments and I think your argument holds water for the most > part with a few exceptions: The Choral Fantasy drags in many places; the > last movement of the Piano Wind Quintet, op.16 is about as close as you can > get to plagiarizing, Mozart’s Rondo closing movement to his piano concerto > in E-flat , K.482. > > Now as to “acres of well-crafted wall paper music” by Mozart, not sure I > can buy into that at all. One should dismiss almost all of the juvenalia of > course. He was still just a kid. The violin concertos are early, but have > their pleasures. Mozart’s “Eroica” moment if you will, comes with the piano > concerto in E-flat major, K.271. The work’s “Jeunehomme” nickname was > something of a Mozart family joke. Victoire Jenamy was the French pianist > in the formal dedication, and because the work was written for someone > else, we have three surviving and fabulous cadenzas that are integral to > the overall work. Anyone who has played it (and I have) will share with you > the complete joy it brings to both the fingers and ears. The composer was > only 21. His list of absolute masterworks is quite large, considering his > relatively short life. There are four or five piano sonatas; as many > violin/piano sonatas; trios; the string quartets starting with the “Haydn” > six need no special advocacy. The quintets (except for the early one, > K.174) are sublime in the truest sense of the word, the clarinet quintet is > a gift from on high, along with its cousin concerto, K.622. No fewer than > six full-length operas are among the treasures of Western art, the keyboard > concertos 9, 10, 12, 14, 15, 17, 19, 20–27 are within the highest level of > artistic endeavor. And if there is indeed a heaven, they will most > certainly be singing the Ave verum corpus. > > Yes, many of the earliest symphonies would not be out of place on an > elevator ride. But by the time we get to nos. 28 and 29, only Haydn is > writing above this level. I have a fairly wide acquaintance with the minor > composers of the late 18th and early 19th century. Excluding a small part > of J.C. Bach, a larger part of C.P.E. Bach, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, and > Mendelssohn of course, all the others rarely if ever reached Mozart’s > genius during these years. There are some who get close, but not many, and > those who do seem unable to sustain their inspirations for anything longer > than a single movement or a few short passages. Mozart’s last 3 symphonies > are of course summits in Western Art. The A minor piano rondo, K.511 and > the B major Adagio are in a class by themselves > > Now I know we could go on like this forever, and again, I agree with you > that Mozart certainly wrote his share of mediocre works. One thinks of some > of the variation sets—which were probably written down after > improvisational performance and they sound it too. Anyone who has played > through the sonatas for piano would probably agree with the call that only > four or six of them are really accomplished works. Maybe Canadian pianist > Glenn Gould was right. He hated most of them and though the Haydn sonatas > were far more interesting. He was right! > > Back to Beethoven, the 2nd piano concerto, op.19, which is really his > first venture into this genre is boring. Sorry, I know you won’t agree with > that. However, when it come to the 1st concerto in C major, we are in a > different league entirely. This is a stupendous creation and although I > have to set it aside from time to time, on return, the thrill is still > there. I adore all the string quartets—there’s nothing like them in the > entire repertoire—and the 32 piano sonata (save the two easy ones, op.49) > should be lifetime companions for any serious musician or music lover. > Fidelio, the Great Mass, for sure. The Scottish and Irish Folksong > arrangements are sheer delights. Of the symphonies, there is nothing left > to say, but it is worth noting, that despite his vehement protestations to > the contrary—Beethoven said he learned absolutely nothing from > Haydn—Beethoven learned a great deal from his aging colleague and studied > his music quite closely. > > This incredibly long email is written in hope of drawing other ARSC > classical fans into the discussion. WE NEED TO RECLAIM OUR TURF! (Never > trust people who write in all caps.) We always seem to learn a lot from > each other and this is for me, a great pleasure in staying semi-active on > the list-serve. > > Now John, not to attempt to pull the rug out from underneath our sainted > BvB, but I do think that Bach belongs before anyone. The musical powers of > the Leipzig cantor have never been surpassed, let alone equalled. Part of > many people’s hangup with JSB, I suspect, is the abundant creation of music > for sacred occasions. The poetry for many of these works is excruciating, > but pay no attention to the German words. Listen for the soul inspiring > life presented as a universal dance and woven into the very fabric of > almost all these works. It is everywhere. He is truly the father of our > Western musical culture. You will find no IMHO from me here. > > And fellow ARSC’s please join in, if you care to share your perspectives. > The idea is not to assume the Western canon should be swallowed in toto. > > Salud, > Alex McGehee > > > On Apr 28, 2018, at 2:05 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > And this is Birgit Nilsson' s centennial year. I hope you will repeat > that > > program at ARSC-N.Y., Dennis. In case I don't make it to "Charm City." > > > > Alex, I will raise a mild objection about less-than-top-drawer > Beethoven. > > For me, of all the "great composers," Beethoven's output is more > > consistently comprised of masterpieces than almost anyone else. It is > hard > > to find a piece that isn't one, although Wellington's Victory may > qualify. > > Even Mozart wrote acres of well-crafted wallpaper music. Not Beethoven. > > > > Best, John > > > > On Apr 28, 2018 12:43 PM, "Gene Baron" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > >> Two wonderful singers - I certainly hope to get to it. Thanks. > >> > >> Gene > >> > >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Dennis Rooney < > [log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Alex, > >>> > >>> Classical music is indeed sparsely represented on this year's > conference > >>> program, but I will do a centennial tribute to sopranos Astrid Várnay > and > >>> Birgit Nilsson that I hope you will be able to attend. > >>> > >>> Ciao, > >>> > >>> DDR > >>> > >>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 7:09 PM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask] > > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> A very interesting thread. Would be nice if such material, sources, > and > >>>> demonstrations made it to an ARSC conference. I noticed only > Bluegrass, > >>>> Disco, Rap, and the discovery that Baltimore is referred to as “Charm > >>> City” > >>>> in a quick scan of the program for our annual event. Despite many > years > >>>> spent in the DC area, Baltimore’s nickname was a discovery. Sort of an > >>>> oxymoron from my experiences outside the tourist areas. > >>>> > >>>> “Wellington’s Victory” is a great reminder of the old Mercury > recording > >>>> with Antal Dorati and the LSO. I bought it for the “1812” on the > other > >>>> side. The one with the “authentic” cannons and bells. Being something > >> of > >>> a > >>>> Tchaikovsky nut in my youth, the recording allowed me a first > >> experience > >>> of > >>>> a thoroughly mediocre work by Beethoven. Of course there are others > and > >>> had > >>>> I not already placed all the “great composers” on such an exalted > >> altar, > >>> I > >>>> would have realized that LvB had subpar days just like everyone else. > >>>> > >>>> Haydn’s pieces for Flötenuhr—the word is best translated as mechanical > >>>> organ—are a minor, but interesting group in the larger body of his > >> work. > >>>> The still on-going, first complete edition of Haydn’s work considers > 17 > >>> of > >>>> these pieces to be genuine. Fifteen others, included in the relevant > >> JHW > >>>> volume, are published in an appendix, but cannot be sourced to Haydn. > >> The > >>>> editorial work which resulted in these divisions was done by Sonja > >>> Gerlach > >>>> and George Hill in the early 1980s. Gerlach is near irreproachable in > >> her > >>>> scholarly work on Haydn. > >>>> > >>>> The princes Esterházy—particularly Nicholas II—were huge fans of > >>>> mechanical organs, and they most certainly featured their “personal” > >>>> composer’s works. A few of these devices have survived and they have > >>>> revealed some significant information to researchers regarding other > >>> Haydn > >>>> works, which we would not have known except for these wound up > >>> mechanicals. > >>>> Given their cost, they must have been the audiophile status equipment > >> of > >>>> their day. Haydn was intimately involved in the transcription of his > >>> music > >>>> for them. He worked together with a very talented builder— Catholic > >>> priest, > >>>> Father Primitivus Niemecz, also on the Esterházy payroll. Haydn’s > >>> autograph > >>>> manuscript for the music in one of these organs requires 32 tones over > >> a > >>>> three octave range. Unfortunately, because mainsprings wear out and > get > >>>> replaced, we cannot rely on the devices for unquestioned authority in > >>>> matters of tempo. Given the pre-metronome times, that would have been > >>> good > >>>> information to have. > >>>> > >>>> If your eyes have not completely glazed over by this point, I would > >>>> strongly recommend tracking down Arthur Ord-Hume’s, Joseph Haydn and > >> the > >>>> Mechanical Organ. The text is in English and the book features > >> absolutely > >>>> terrific photographs of three of the clocks—still in playable > >> condition, > >>>> inside and out diagrams of how they were constructed, and facsimiles > >> of a > >>>> few surviving Haydn manuscripts for the works. I checked Abebooks.com > < > >>>> http://abebooks.com/> (like half the bookselling world, now owned by > >>>> Amazon) and found it still available for under $20. > >>>> > >>>> Incidentally, the first known public hearing of any of Haydn’s > >> Flötenuhr > >>>> music took place on June 14, 1926 as part of a Vienna radio broadcast. > >>>> > >>>> Salud, > >>>> Alex McGehee > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 25, 2018, at 7:40 PM, Paul Jackson <[log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> The Stanford Piano Roll project may be able to help with this. > >>>>> http://library.stanford.edu/blogs/stanford-libraries-blog/ > >>>> 2015/11/piano-roll-scanner-project-prsp > >>>>> > >>>>> *Trescott Research - Paul T. Jackson * > >>>>> > >>>>> 2503 Natalie Lane, Steilacoom, WA 98388 > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.trescottresearch.com <http://www.trescottresearch.com/> > >>>>> > >>>>> Support Authors: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.plateauareawriters.org <http://www. > >> plateauareawriters.org/> > >>>>> > >>>>> Support Musicians > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.gatewayconcertband.org <http://www. > >> gatewayconcertband.org/> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 4/25/2018 2:13 PM, Frank Forman wrote: > >>>>>> Does anyone have a piano roll listing? Schnabel punched 051n2 (Rondo > >>> in > >>>> G) > >>>>>> on Ampico 60613, in 1922, making it the first, since Kempff's disc > >>>> recording, P.66040 mx1721as, 1722� as, came in 1924. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> 1006 Langer Way > >>> Delray Beach, FL 33483 > >>> 561.265.2976 > >>> > >> >