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I have also looked at 6.2.2.5.  Instead of looking at the Greek forms of
the work, especially the abbreviations of those works, one should look at
standard of lists of abbreviations of those works (Latin works, too).  I
think you will find such lists in works on classical dictionaries,
encyclopedias, etc. devoted to those works.  Many times the Greek works are
abbreviated in Latin terms.  The idea of using nominative terms (changing
the genitive terms to nominative), especially if you start the title with a
preposition, such as "de," which is not an article in Latin.  I would stick
with RDA, inspite of the "clarifications" made by LC.

Gene Fieg

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Yang Wang <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Yes, I am aware of the RDA 6.2.2.5 and LC/PCC instruction (NACO training
> module #6, slides 28-32). The key word here is “well-established.” Slide 28
> gives us this list to base the preferred title (for a work created before
> 1501) on:
>
>
>
> a) In the original language
>
> b) By which the work is commonly identified
>
> c) As found in modern reference resources
>
>
>
> In the footnote of the same slide (March/2017), we find this explication:
> “Notice that reference sources take priority over embodiments of the work,
> although we still choose a title in the original language in most cases.
> This reinforces the ‘commonly-identified’ criterion as being the
> overarching principle behind the instructions.”
>
>
>
> Slide 29 is, however, is an exception to the above rule (with regard to
> Greek titles and anonymous works)—here we go “parochial” first and
> foremost, namely, use English titles whenever possible:
>
>
>
> a) A well-established title in language preferred by cataloging agency
> (English for NACO)
>
> b) The Latin title of the work
>
> c) The Greek title of the work
>
>
>
> In the footnote: “The LC-PCC PS to 6.2.2.5 designates English as the
> preferred language. Neither RDA nor the LC-PCC PS attempts to quantify ‘
> well-established.’ Take this as a matter of cataloger judgment. If there
> is more than one English title, choose the one that in your opinion is the
> commonly identified.”
>
>
>
> What I find perplexing is the abundance of Latin titles and just a couple
> of English titles currently in NAF for Galen. I fully understand that
> LC/PCC’s effort to defend the established headings like Homer. $t Iliad and
> Homer. $t Odyssey, but with Galen, who is hardly a household name to the
> general public, we are supposed to choose “commonly known” English titles
> for the preferred titles from now on? Really?! The full title of Galen’s
> shorter work *Ad Glauconem de methodo medendi* is not even in *Oxford
> classical dictionary* or in *Britannica*, and only mentioned in
> abbreviated form in Latin “Ad Glauconem” in *Brill’s New Pauly* (*Dictionary
> of Greek and Latin authors*)—which itself is a translation of the German *Neue
> Pauly*. What is exactly its “well-established title” in English language
> then? Based on what reference sources? Can the English title “Method of
> medicine for Glaucon” from the Loeb translation be taken as
> “well-established”? What happens to “reference sources take priority over
> embodiments of the work” and “‘commonly-identified’ criterion as being the
> overarching principle behind the instructions”?
>
>
>
> Yang
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> GOV] *On Behalf Of *Bushman, Barbara (NIH/NLM) [E]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 25, 2018 1:20 PM
>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Auth rec for Galen's "On the therapeutic method"
>
>
>
> I forwarded this conversation to our Senior Rare Book Cataloger in the our
> History of Medicine Division and while she has no objections to creating a
> separate authority record for the smaller work “… to Glaucon,” changing the
> 1XX from On the therapeutic method to the Latin title would contradict the
> instructions at LC-PPC PS 6.2.2.5, and create unnecessary BFM.   The policy
> statement says to choose the well-established title in the language
> preferred by the cataloging agency.  The statement continues to say, that
> if there is no well-established title in the language preferred by the
> cataloging agency, use the Latin title.    Since U.S. libraries prefer
> English, and there is a well-established title in English, then the 1XX
> should not be changed to the Latin title.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barbara
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Barbara Bushman
> Assistant Head
>
> Cataloging and Metadata Management Section
> National Library of Medicine
> 8600 Rockville Pike
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=8600+Rockville+Pike+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Building+38&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Building 38
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=8600+Rockville+Pike+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Building+38&entry=gmail&source=g>,
> Room 1N08D
> Bethesda, MD 20894
> 301-480-1497
> 301-402-1211 (fax)
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Yang Wang [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 25, 2018 11:55 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Auth rec for Galen's "On the therapeutic method"
>
>
>
> Before we do that, I’d like to throw in a few thoughts of mine.
>
>
>
> 1. At this point, would it be possible to revise the existing title “On
> the therapeutic method” to the more commonly known Latin title *De
> methodo medendi *or* De methodo medendi libri xiv*?
>
>
>
> 2. Could or should the heading (AAP) for the shorter work be set up as *Ad
> Glauconem de methodo medendi* or *Ad Glauconem de methodo medendi libri
> ii*?
>
>
>
> 3. At variant access points, should we use nominative forms (or commonly
> known title phrases) for the title instead of truncated genitive forms?
>
>
>
>                 400 0   Galen. $t Θεραπευτικῆς μεθόδου βιβλία ιδ’
>
>                 400 0   Galen. $t Μεθόδος θεραπευτική
>
>
>
> 400 0   Galen. $t Γαλήνου τῶν πρὸς Γλαύκωνα θεραπευτικών βιβλία β’
>
> 400 0   Galen. $t Τῶν πρὸς Γλαύκωνα θεραπευτικών βιβλία β’
>
> 400 0   Galen. $t Πρὸς Γλαύκωνα θεραπευτικών
>
>                 400 0   Galen. $t Θεραπευτικά πρὸς Γλαύκωνα
>
>
>
> 4. In scholarly publications, especially in citations therein, works are
> cited most often in abbreviations, and it is not easy to recall or search
> for fuller titles (I am thinking of those pieces contained in Plutarch’s
> *Moralia*, e.g., De aud. poet. =  *De audiendis poetis*, De com. not. = *De
> communibus notitiis contra Stoicos*).  Would it be considered a good
> practice to add commonly known abbreviations of such titles as variant
> access points, if we cite their usages in a 670?
>
>
>
>                 400 0   Galen. $t De meth. med.
>
>                 400 0   Galen. $t Ad Glauc. de meth. med.
>
>
>
> 5. In *Corpus Galenicum* (Tübingen, 1990), G. Fichter gives us a
> compilation of 434 work titles, including those of spurious works. A lot of
> them are not in Kühn’s edition; some do not even have Greek titles, as they
> originated from Latin translations of Arabic texts, etc. I am thinking that
> perhaps we could make a shortened list of titles of G’s extant works based
> on CG, and add it to LC Classification Schedule (as I mentioned earlier in
> the thread)? A feasible project? In OCLC there appear to be a lot of
> Galen’s works/translations, but to sift through them and look for specific
> titles (in various languages) is very difficult, because often there are no
> AAPs or other types of title controls, or, lumped together in compilations.
> If a publication is Arabic, for example, and no Latin title is given in the
> bib, how can a library user search for any clue and find the proper
> connection?
>
>
>
> Thanks for your time and attention!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Yang
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> GOV <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Gene Fieg
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:26 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Auth rec for Galen's "On the therapeutic method"
>
>
>
> And now how or who will the auth. rec?
>
>
>
> Gene Fieg
>
> On Thursday, May 24, 2018, Robert Maxwell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Thesaurus linguae graecae also lists these as two different works:
>
>
>
> De methodo medendi libri xiv ; edition: C.G. Kühn, *Claudii Galeni opera
> omnia*, vol. 10, Leipzig: Knobloch, 1825 (repr. Hildesheim: Olms, 1965):
> 1-1021. Word Count: 157,545
>
> Ad Glauconem de medendi methodo libri ii ; edition: C.G. Kühn, *Claudii
> Galeni opera omnia*, vol. 11, Leipzig: Knobloch, 1826 (repr. Hildesheim:
> Olms, 1965): 1-146. Word Count: 22,888
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert L. Maxwell
> Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian
> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> (801)422-5568
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert J. Rendall
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2018 9:45 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: Auth rec for Galen's "On the therapeutic method"
>
>
>
> These are different works, and the one addressed to Glaucon is shorter. De
> Methodo Medendi is in volume 10 below, and Ad Glauconem at the beginning of
> volume 11.
>
> https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100628003
>
>
> Robert Rendall
>
> Principal Serials Cataloger
>
> Original and Special Materials Cataloging, Columbia University Libraries
>
> 102 Butler Library, 535 West 114th Street, New York, NY 10027
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=535+West+114th+Street,+New+York,+NY+10027&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> tel.: 212 851 2449  fax: 212 854 5167
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 8:35 PM, Gene Fieg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> So far as I have found that the work to Glaucon is Loeb no. 523.  It
> appears that they are two different works.  BUT, I cannot find it now, but
> somewhere in my searching, chapter 7 of Method of Medicine is the same or
> similar to the the Method sent to Glaucos.  So not only may it be a
> separate work, but a work, a part of a whole, which has its own title.  If
> you have LCL 523, take a look at it.
>
>
>
> Gene Fieg
>
> Ret. Cataloger
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 2:56 PM, Ehlert, Mark K. <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> A question for the classicists on the list.
>
>
>
> Does the authority record for *Galen. On the therapeutic method*
> (n98078266) conflate two different works?
>
>
>
> I have in front of me Galen’s* Method of Medicine*, volume 516 in the
> Loeb series.  On page ix of the introduction, the Latin title is given as *Methodus
> medendi*, which is found in one of the record’s 400 fields.  The
> introduction’s author later points out that *Method of Medicine* “is
> supplemented by the much shorter *Method of Medicine for Glaucon*,” a
> work also covered by the same authority record.  The Greek title for the
> work in hand is presented on page 1; I believe it would be transcribed as: *Galenou
> Therapeutikes Methodou*.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark K. Ehlert                 O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library
> Cataloging and Metadata        University of St. Thomas
>
>   Librarian                    2115 Summit Avenue
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2115+Summit+Avenue+%0D%0A+St.+Paul,+MN+55105&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
>
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>
> <http://www.stthomas.edu/libraries/>
>
> - Alma: NA02 // Primo: MT NA01
>
>
>
>   "Experience is by industry achieved // And perfected by
>
> the swift course of time"--Shakespeare, "Two Gentlemen of
>
> Verona," Act I, Scene iii
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. University of St. Thomas : All for the
> Common Good] <https://www.stthomas.edu/e>
>
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>