Stephen wrote: “... Even though considered narrowly "Werewolves $v Fiction" and "Werewolf fiction" may appear to be an over-fine distinction semantically, considered more broadly, each term
occupies a distinct place in a distinct type of subject analysis.”
Very well said! Some institutions are using (or planning to use) FAST headings exclusively. So for them "Werewolf fiction" (http://id.worldcat.org/fast/2000474)
is a must.
Also, in SHM H1790, “LC Practice: The special provisions
for increased subject access to fiction, 3” [last updated in 2004?] shows the use of genre/form MARC tag 655 #7 in addition to the assignment of [Topic] $v Fiction. The examples at the end of that section
all include 655s, except that, instead of $2 gsafd, now we are
mostly using $2 lcgft.
Why using both? Adam explained it clearly:
“In some ILS's genre/form terms from 655 are indexed separately from subject headings, which I think is the best way to configure a system. Genres are not subjects and they should have their own
search index. Some users may search by topic (Werewolves--Fiction) and others might prefer by genre/form (Werewolf fiction). Many systems also use genre/form as a facet once you've done an initial search.”
Now I am convinced and would not hesitate to add a genre/form term, whenever appropriate, as in this case.
Yang
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of John Lavalie
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
*That's* a distiction that I can understand.
Yesterday, when I said I didn't want to do double work, it isn't just a second heading for one book. It's doing it going forward, finding the old ones, running reports to
keep the two headings in sync ...
If the only perceivable difference is what indexes they appear in, what if we did this:
155 Werewolf fiction
450 Werewolves $v Fiction
Works would always appear as subjects and genres, and the counts would always be identical.
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>
On Behalf Of Stephen Hearn
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 10:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
"Werewolf fiction" was preceded in LCGFT by "Werewolf films". The difference between "650 0 $a Werewolves $v Drama" and "655 7 $a Werewolf films $2 lcgft" might be a bit more obvious. When terms were developed for literary genres, prior
LCGFT patterns were followed where the case for a semantic difference may not have been as clear..
That said, Werewolves and Werewolf are different entry terms. The former as an LCSH heading will have a variety of subdivisions in use, and each is part of a larger syndetic structure. If you drop "650 0 $a Werewolves $v Fiction", the
subcategory of fiction about werewolves will be missing from the access offered for other such subcategories. If you drop the 655, the potential to find werewolf fiction as a narrower type of LCGFT's Paranormal fiction is lost. Even though considered narrowly
"Werewolves $v Fiction" and "Werewolf fiction" may appear to be an over-fine distinction semantically, considered more broadly, each term occupies a distinct place in a distinct type of subject analysis.
Stephen
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:53 PM, John Lavalie <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I am still curious why you don’t want to just use both.
Because I don't want to do duplicate work if there's no difference.
BTW, I'm a supporter of lcgft. I convinced my consortium to switch from gsafd. I'm not suggesting we delete any genre headings.
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Lavalie
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 1:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
I don’t think I could make that distinction on a regular basis, or for any of the other similar headings (Zombie fiction, Survival fiction, Railroad fiction ... )
I'm trying to avoid using both if they're the same, or if the distinction is so fine that users and catalogers can't tell the difference.
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Wilson, Pete
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 1:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
The two headings
650 Werewolves $v Fiction
and
655 Werewolf fiction
are not equivalent, to my mind.
One indicates that a work is about werewolves, though it happens to be fiction. One indicates that a work is of a genre known as “werewolf fiction.” Yes, it’s going to be about one or more werewolves.
I would just use both.
Pete Wilson
Vanderbilt University
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yang Wang
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 11:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
A fascinating topic [werewolves] in and of itself!
I think that, for a literary compilation, that is, a collection of werewolf stories/novels (either by a single author or several authors), “Werewolves $v Fiction” will be the subject heading.
For a single story or a novel in which werewolves are featured, “Werewolves $v Fiction” can also be used (Cf. SHM H1790 4.c). That is the only instance (apart from the categories of biographical fiction and historical fiction) that a subject heading can be assigned, since werewolves are also animals. Otherwise, no subject headings are needed: “Assign no form headings to individual works of adult fiction, children's fiction, or young adult fiction” [italics are mine].
For a scholarly study of the literary genre, as Adam has just pointed out, the subject heading will be “Werewolves in literature.”
I would hesitate to use “Werewolf fiction” in a bib record, but I certainly find the term very precise and useful when we need to describe the form of a work in an authority record (380).
Yang
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 12:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
Hank is correct. --Fiction can only be used as a form subdivision, never as a topical subdivision. Works about a topic in fiction are set up as [topic] in literature. Werewolves in literature is established in LCSH (http://id.loc.gov/authorities/subjects/sh2002007267).
In some ILS's genre/form terms from 655 are indexed separately from subject headings, which I think is the best way to configure a system. Genres are not subjects and they should have their own search index. Some users may search by topic (Werewolves--Fiction) and others might prefer by genre/form (Werewolf fiction). Many systems also use genre/form as a facet once you've done an initial search.
Adam Schiff
University of Washington Libraries
The Linked Data Service provides access to commonly found standards and vocabularies promulgated by the Library of Congress. This includes data values and the controlled vocabularies that house them. Datasets available include LCSH, BIBFRAME, LC Name Authorities, LC Classification, MARC codes, PREMIS vocabularies, ISO language codes, and more.
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Young,William C <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 8:05:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
I would think that would qualify as Werewolves in fiction (if such a subject exists).
- - Fiction is a form subdivision, which means the work is a work of fiction.
- Hank
William C. (Hank) Young
CONSER Coordinator
George A. Smathers Libraries
University of Florida
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Breeding, Zora
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 11:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
There may be a scholarly study written about how werewolves have been depicted in fiction. That would not qualify as Werewolf fiction, the genre.
Zora Breeding
Vanderbilt University
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Lavalie
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 9:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
Subjects and genres are in the same index and facet, although they appear separately in the full record display, as you would expect.
We just left a catalog that separated subjects and genres. I think I would still be asking the question if we have stayed.
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Lundgren,Jimmie Harrell
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 9:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
How do they function for users in your library catalog? Display? Retrieval in which searches? Limits?
Jimmie Lundgren
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Violeta Ilik
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Fiction genres vs. --Fiction
Hi,
Not sure why would you want to flip 650 Subject Added Entry--Topical Term to 655 Index Term--Genre/Form. They are different.
More info here: https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/6xx/650.html
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 9:56 AM, John Lavalie <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
What's the difference between
650 Werewolves--Fiction.
and
655 Werewolf fiction. ?
I think there is no difference and I'm considering flipping (locally) those 650s to 655s. Is there a difference I'm missing?
John Lavalie | Cataloging and Metadata Specialist | Des Plaines Public Library | http://dppl.org
--
Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist
Data Management & Access, University Libraries
University of Minnesota
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