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Dear Dennis,

I agree with all you've said, but it's a bit frustrating.
It's not like the records are vertical cut [which I can handle], or warped
at all.
They look absolutely beautiful, but are giving me trouble.
We have very good cartridges and styli and a very highly rated turntable
and tonearm.
I'm just frustrated and challenged and need to be victorious [if it doesn't
kill me], *just so I can learn one more trick about transferring*.

What do you suggest I use to clean those Victrolacs, if not the stuff from
Nitty Gritty?
I would appreciate your suggestions.

Warm regards,
Ben

Lackadaisical <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lackadaisical>

On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 1:41 PM Dennis Rooney <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Dear Ben,
>
> In the interests of bringing this matter to a close:
>
> M-127 is Victrolac, not vinyl. So, cleaning the discs with a compound
> formulated for vinyl may not be effective.
>
> Make sure to carefully inspect the stylus to determine it is free of any
> resin. If not, you are guaranteed to have skips.
>
> It may be necessary to clean each disc several times to obtain a clean
> playback. The best results can be edited together.
>
> HOWEVER, as others have opined, WHY BOTHER? Your own transfer can't
> possible equal what has already been done. With respect, you lack both the
> technical expertise and the experience in transferring disc source of this
> type. I suggest that you focus your efforts where they can be most
> effective.
>
> DDR
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 9:26 AM 6295LARGE <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Donald,
> >
> > How are you?
> >
> > Thanks for clearing that up.  It IS interesting!
> > I still have a tracking problem which is the original reason I posted
> here.
> > I've tried many different styli, even LP, but they always skip.
> > I looks like the grooves are jerky, but even if I play it at 45 or 33 so
> as
> > to make the jerking less violent, they stylus still jumps forward.
> > I've cleaned them with Nitty Gritty solution for vinyl, but to no avail.
> >
> > The records really feel like vinyl, but the label is the scrolled red
> > label.  It has a VE at the top and bottom.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 2:11 PM Donald Tait <
> > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ben,
> > >   There seems to be a bit of confusion.
> > >
> > >   As Dennis Rooney pointed out, the first pressings of Victor M-127,
> the
> > > 78-rpm issue of Stokowski's recording of Gurrelieder, were made not
> with
> > > standard shellac, but with the Victrolac compound (with the standard
> > scroll
> > > labels). I own one. If your discs play at 78 rpm, that is what you
> have,
> > > too. All subsequent pressings of M-127 were made of standard shellac.
> The
> > > version of Gurrelieder issued on the 33-1/3 rpm Program Transcription
> > discs
> > > in set LM-127 were also made of Victrolac, but as Rich Kaplan said,
> that
> > is
> > > a separate (and very scarce) set.
> > >
> > >   Don Tait
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: 6295LARGE <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2018 12:03 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> > > tracking problems
> > >
> > > Hi Rich,
> > > Thanks for the email, but It's not the Vitrolac.  It's M-127 with the
> > > scrolled red label.
> > > I guess it was  made after they invented vinyl, but it's terrible when
> I
> > > try to play it.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:52 PM Richard Kaplan <
> > > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Ben,
> > > >
> > > > From what you describe, what you have is almost certainly the
> Victrolac
> > > > "Program Transcription" as Gary describes. How to tell: the album
> > number
> > > is
> > > > LM-127 as opposed to simply M or DM; and, the discs have a silver
> label
> > > as
> > > > opposed to the standard red label for 78s. These are not "78s" at
> all,
> > > but
> > > > early long-play discs that were cut at 33.3. The set is quite rare.
> > > >
> > > > As for tracking, the grooves are narrower than those of regular 78s;
> my
> > > > copy also mistracks with a standard 78 stylus. Mark Obert-Thorn
> > > recommends
> > > > a 2.0 mil stylus.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Kaplan
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 9/19/2018 2:34:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > > [log in to unmask] writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  Hi Ben,
> > > >
> > > > I should have read your first sentence more carefully. What you
> > describe
> > > > as vinyl is actually Victrolac, a "thermoplastic resin" that Victor
> > > > developed for the long-playing Program Transcriptions. There was
> quite
> > a
> > > > bit of discussion a few weeks back about Victrolac on this list.
> > > >
> > > > Is the stylus picking up any dirt? Dennis Rooney described a problem
> > with
> > > > Victrolac records oozing sticky gook into the grooves. Perhaps he can
> > > > respond and refresh our memories on this.
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > ____________________________
> > > >
> > > > Gary Galo
> > > > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > > > The Crane School of Music
> > > > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> > > >
> > > > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > > > Arnold Schoenberg
> > > >
> > > > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > > > Igor Markevitch
> > > >
> > > > "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> > > > audible,
> > > > on that system nothing will be audible."
> > > > G. Galo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > > > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:26 PM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78
> M-127
> > > > tracking problems
> > > >
> > > > Hi Gary,
> > > >
> > > > I never heard of Victrolac.
> > > >  I'm sure the record is clean, because I just cleaned it.
> > > > I cleaned it with "PURE 2 - Professional record cleaner from by
> "Nitty
> > > > Gritty"
> > > >
> > > > I has the scroll label and it feels like vinyl. Is it not vinyl?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:17 PM Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Ben,
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this a Victrolac pressing with scroll labels, or regular
> shellac?
> > My
> > > > > Victrolac copy has a lot of crud in the grooves, a problem with
> that
> > > > > material that was mentioned a few weeks back on this list. If this
> is
> > > the
> > > > > case, the records need a good cleaning.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also had, at one time, a post-war shellac pressing with RCA
> Victor
> > > > > labels, and a banner-style cover on the album. I've used a 2.5 mil
> TE
> > > on
> > > > > both sets without problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Gary
> > > > >
> > > > > ____________________________
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary Galo
> > > > > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > > > > The Crane School of Music
> > > > > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> > > > >
> > > > > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > > > > Arnold Schoenberg
> > > > >
> > > > > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be
> believed."
> > > > > Igor Markevitch
> > > > >
> > > > > "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> > > > > audible,
> > > > > on that system nothing will be audible."
> > > > > G. Galo
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > > > > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:07 PM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> > > > > tracking problems
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello everyone
> > > > >
> > > > > I never thought I'd have tracking problems with these beautiful
> vinyl
> > > > 78s,
> > > > > but i do.
> > > > > I know they've been reissued on LP and CD, but, strange as it may
> > > seem, I
> > > > > need to have the 78's for transferring purposes.
> > > > > The styli are jumping. I've even tried with a .7 mil stylus just to
> > see
> > > > if
> > > > > it would track better.
> > > > > I tried playing the records at 45 and 33, but the styli keep
> jumping
> > > > > forward. It looks as though the grooves are jerky while the records
> > > look
> > > > > brand new.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone ever come across this problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Ben Roth
> > > > > PLEASE respond to [log in to unmask]
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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