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-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2018 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127 tracking problems

I also seem to recall that the spoken intro in the LP set was longer.

Steve Smolian
  Yes, it is. About twelve minutes. Ward Marston included it in his CD transfer of LM-127. 

  Don Tait

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donald Tait
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 2:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127 tracking problems

Hi Ben,
  There seems to be a bit of confusion. 

  As Dennis Rooney pointed out, the first pressings of Victor M-127, the 78-rpm issue of Stokowski's recording of Gurrelieder, were made not with standard shellac, but with the Victrolac compound (with the standard scroll labels). I own one. If your discs play at 78 rpm, that is what you have, too. All subsequent pressings of M-127 were made of standard shellac. The version of Gurrelieder issued on the 33-1/3 rpm Program Transcription discs in set LM-127 were also made of Victrolac, but as Rich Kaplan said, that is a separate (and very scarce) set.

  Don Tait

  
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 6295LARGE <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2018 12:03 pm
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127 tracking problems

Hi Rich,
Thanks for the email, but It's not the Vitrolac.  It's M-127 with the
scrolled red label.
I guess it was  made after they invented vinyl, but it's terrible when I
try to play it.

Regards,
Ben




On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:52 PM Richard Kaplan <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> From what you describe, what you have is almost certainly the Victrolac
> "Program Transcription" as Gary describes. How to tell: the album number is
> LM-127 as opposed to simply M or DM; and, the discs have a silver label as
> opposed to the standard red label for 78s. These are not "78s" at all, but
> early long-play discs that were cut at 33.3. The set is quite rare.
>
> As for tracking, the grooves are narrower than those of regular 78s; my
> copy also mistracks with a standard 78 stylus. Mark Obert-Thorn recommends
> a 2.0 mil stylus.
>
> Rich Kaplan
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2018 2:34:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>  Hi Ben,
>
> I should have read your first sentence more carefully. What you describe
> as vinyl is actually Victrolac, a "thermoplastic resin" that Victor
> developed for the long-playing Program Transcriptions. There was quite a
> bit of discussion a few weeks back about Victrolac on this list.
>
> Is the stylus picking up any dirt? Dennis Rooney described a problem with
> Victrolac records oozing sticky gook into the grooves. Perhaps he can
> respond and refresh our memories on this.
>
> Gary
>
> ____________________________
>
> Gary Galo
> Audio Engineer Emeritus
> The Crane School of Music
> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
>
> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> Arnold Schoenberg
>
> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> Igor Markevitch
>
> "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> audible,
> on that system nothing will be audible."
> G. Galo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:26 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> tracking problems
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I never heard of Victrolac.
>  I'm sure the record is clean, because I just cleaned it.
> I cleaned it with "PURE 2 - Professional record cleaner from by "Nitty
> Gritty"
>
> I has the scroll label and it feels like vinyl. Is it not vinyl?
>
> Regards,
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:17 PM Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Is this a Victrolac pressing with scroll labels, or regular shellac? My
> > Victrolac copy has a lot of crud in the grooves, a problem with that
> > material that was mentioned a few weeks back on this list. If this is the
> > case, the records need a good cleaning.
> >
> > I also had, at one time, a post-war shellac pressing with RCA Victor
> > labels, and a banner-style cover on the album. I've used a 2.5 mil TE on
> > both sets without problems.
> >
> > Best,
> > Gary
> >
> > ____________________________
> >
> > Gary Galo
> > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > The Crane School of Music
> > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> >
> > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > Arnold Schoenberg
> >
> > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > Igor Markevitch
> >
> > "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> > audible,
> > on that system nothing will be audible."
> > G. Galo
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:07 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> > tracking problems
> >
> > Hello everyone
> >
> > I never thought I'd have tracking problems with these beautiful vinyl
> 78s,
> > but i do.
> > I know they've been reissued on LP and CD, but, strange as it may seem, I
> > need to have the 78's for transferring purposes.
> > The styli are jumping. I've even tried with a .7 mil stylus just to see
> if
> > it would track better.
> > I tried playing the records at 45 and 33, but the styli keep jumping
> > forward. It looks as though the grooves are jerky while the records look
> > brand new.
> >
> > Has anyone ever come across this problem?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ben Roth
> > PLEASE respond to [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>