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From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of ARSCLIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 11:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ARSCLIST Digest - 7 Feb 2019 to 8 Feb 2019 (#2019-35)

There are 6 messages totaling 358 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Compression (4)
  2. Mama Cass Elliot Interview (2)

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Date:    Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:59:51 +0100
From:    George Brock-Nannestad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compression

From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad


Thank you for the reference to an article in the NYT by Greg Milner, whose book probably has not been read by nearly as many.

Compression is good when you listen in an environment where the signal-to-noise ratio is less than 10dB, close to the dangerous noise dose at 80+ dB: many cars.

The film industry used such techniques for film soundtracks from the 1930s on. They used calibrated compressor-expanders. When the Danish film sound company called Fonofilm moved from sound-on-film to sound-on-disk (Ortofon) in the mid-1940s they collaborated with the Danish record company TONO, and indeed TONO recorded 78 rpm records using this technology to increase the dynamic ratio on records. I only knew one person who had the gramophone reproduction equipment for these records: the former head of recording operations at TONO. I myself used a Source Engineering preamplifier for many years in the 1970s, and it had an expansion feature apart from other useful settings, and it worked (without calibration) for the TONO records. I also used it on the Flanders & Swann song "the Ostrich" (At the Drop of Another Hat), where I really could get frightening sounds out of its climax.

Best wishes,


George

----- Original meddelelse -----
Fra: "Peter Hirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
Til: "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List" <[log in to unmask]>
Sendt: fredag, 8. februar 2019 05:33:10
Emne: [ARSCLIST] Compression

This article <https://tinyurl.com/yaw7ws2z>recalled many a discussion back
[https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/07/opinion/07milner1/07milner1-facebookJumbo.jpg]<https://tinyurl.com/yaw7ws2z>

Opinion | They Really Donít Make Music Like They Used To<https://tinyurl.com/yaw7ws2z>
tinyurl.com
If the Eagles or Marvin Gaye fan in your life is complaining about this yearís Grammy songs, this might be why.



in a particular not-too-distant era of this list, so it may be of interest
to some of you. The article does go maybe a little far with the graphs and
analysis for my level of interest and my generally non-technical
professional background, but I am getting some extra mileage out of the
hundreds of comments and replies.

Enjoy and discuss amongst yourselves.

Peter Hirsch

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Feb 2019 12:20:13 -0500
From:    Louis Hone <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compression

Quite agree. I wish the car manufacturers would add a compressor feature to
their car radios.
For example, a low treshold 2:1 ratio, so that the low volume passages
would still be audible and the loud ones tamed down.
A 60 dB dynamic range would be brought down to 30 dB (sort of like a DBX).
When I went to Europe 15 years ago, I made a compilation of my favorite
tunes onto a couple of CDs.
I used that 2:1 compression trick so that the music would be audible on the
plane and without having to reach for the volume control all the time.
 Worked like a charm.

Louis


On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:01 AM George Brock-Nannestad <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>
> ..*.**Compression is good when you listen in an environment where the
> signal-to-noise ratio is less than 10dB, close to the dangerous noise dose
> at 80+ dB: many cars...*
>
> Best wishes,
>
> George
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:12:29 -0500
From:    David Rahtz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mama Cass Elliot Interview

Hi All,

Looking for any archival interviews with 'Mama' Cass Elliot of The Mamas
and The Papas. There don't seem to be too many out there besides her Carson
interview and a handful of other Network variety shows. Looking for any
radio interviews / oral history collections that might feature her / any
private collections.

Any / all leads are greatly appreciated!
Best,
David

--
David Rahtz
*Jigsaw Productions*
26 Broadway, Suite 1301
New York, NY 10004
O: *212-352-3010* ext. 216
C: 646-539-8569

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Feb 2019 07:19:03 +0800
From:    Tim Gillett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compression

Louis Hine wrote: "I wish the car manufacturers would add a compressor
feature to their car radios."

I think some of them have provided that feature for some time.

In addition to the increasing compression of commercially released music
over the last few decades, radio stations usually compress their broadcasts
even further, especially on the AM band.  In one sense it's better done at
the station rather than at the car radio because it helps keep the quietest
parts of the broadcast above the noise and static in poor reception areas.

I thought the NYT article was well written, but compressed music  is not
necessarily loud. It only sounds loud if it's also peak normalised.

As the writer said though, part of the push for more compressed recorded
music has been a change in consumer listening habits. More people seem to
listen to recorded music in noisy places such as public transport where
heavy compression does help. The problem comes when it's then listened to in
a quiet space.
The bottom line is we cant anticipate how each person will be listening to
their music. And while it's easy to compress a track when that's needed,
it's often much harder to "un" compress it and restore the dynamics.  "Baked
in" compression can be a mixed blessing.

Tim

Perth,
Western Australia




----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Hone" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Compression


> Quite agree. I wish the car manufacturers would add a compressor feature
> to
> their car radios.
> For example, a low treshold 2:1 ratio, so that the low volume passages
> would still be audible and the loud ones tamed down.
> A 60 dB dynamic range would be brought down to 30 dB (sort of like a DBX).
> When I went to Europe 15 years ago, I made a compilation of my favorite
> tunes onto a couple of CDs.
> I used that 2:1 compression trick so that the music would be audible on
> the
> plane and without having to reach for the volume control all the time.
> Worked like a charm.
>
> Louis
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:01 AM George Brock-Nannestad <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>>
>> ..*.**Compression is good when you listen in an environment where the
>> signal-to-noise ratio is less than 10dB, close to the dangerous noise
>> dose
>> at 80+ dB: many cars...*
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>>


---
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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:57:22 -0500
From:    Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Compression

Part of the problem also seems to stem from sending out what sounds like low bit digital signals, or so my ears think.  Another form of compression.

Steve Smolian

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Gillett
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 6:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Compression

Louis Hine wrote: "I wish the car manufacturers would add a compressor
feature to their car radios."

I think some of them have provided that feature for some time.

In addition to the increasing compression of commercially released music
over the last few decades, radio stations usually compress their broadcasts
even further, especially on the AM band.  In one sense it's better done at
the station rather than at the car radio because it helps keep the quietest
parts of the broadcast above the noise and static in poor reception areas.

I thought the NYT article was well written, but compressed music  is not
necessarily loud. It only sounds loud if it's also peak normalised.

As the writer said though, part of the push for more compressed recorded
music has been a change in consumer listening habits. More people seem to
listen to recorded music in noisy places such as public transport where
heavy compression does help. The problem comes when it's then listened to in
a quiet space.
The bottom line is we cant anticipate how each person will be listening to
their music. And while it's easy to compress a track when that's needed,
it's often much harder to "un" compress it and restore the dynamics.  "Baked
in" compression can be a mixed blessing.

Tim

Perth,
Western Australia




----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Hone" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Compression


> Quite agree. I wish the car manufacturers would add a compressor feature
> to
> their car radios.
> For example, a low treshold 2:1 ratio, so that the low volume passages
> would still be audible and the loud ones tamed down.
> A 60 dB dynamic range would be brought down to 30 dB (sort of like a DBX).
> When I went to Europe 15 years ago, I made a compilation of my favorite
> tunes onto a couple of CDs.
> I used that 2:1 compression trick so that the music would be audible on
> the
> plane and without having to reach for the volume control all the time.
> Worked like a charm.
>
> Louis
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:01 AM George Brock-Nannestad <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>>
>> ..*.**Compression is good when you listen in an environment where the
>> signal-to-noise ratio is less than 10dB, close to the dangerous noise
>> dose
>> at 80+ dB: many cars...*
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>>


---
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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Feb 2019 19:02:46 -0500
From:    Maddie Dietrich <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mama Cass Elliot Interview

Hi David,

Check with the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago. They recorded a
lot of concerts starting in the late 50s and have a great archive of
in-house concert recordings. I can't imagine Cass Elliot didn't pass
through there at some point. Direct your inquiry to the Resource Center.
https://www.oldtownschool.org/resourcecenter/

Good Luck!
Maddie

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:14 PM David Rahtz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Looking for any archival interviews with 'Mama' Cass Elliot of The Mamas
> and The Papas. There don't seem to be too many out there besides her Carson
> interview and a handful of other Network variety shows. Looking for any
> radio interviews / oral history collections that might feature her / any
> private collections.
>
> Any / all leads are greatly appreciated!
> Best,
> David
>
> --
> David Rahtz
> *Jigsaw Productions*
> 26 Broadway, Suite 1301
> New York, NY 10004
> O: *212-352-3010* ext. 216
> C: 646-539-8569
>


--
Madeline Dietrich
414-687-8744

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End of ARSCLIST Digest - 7 Feb 2019 to 8 Feb 2019 (#2019-35)
************************************************************