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Abject apologies — intended for a DOI specialist who is not familiar with bibframe and would have been able to provide better details than I can. But the DOI is clearly intended as a dereferenceable ID, and is often used that way — both as anID for a journal article and as a defererenceable uri that resolves to the location of that article. And it can also be used as a simple non-dereferenceable uri for other things (often things that are not digital). You are of course correct about ISBN - it is a urn with no http equivalent — except for the ISBN-A, which is a hybrid ISBN-expressed-as-a-DOI and is therefore resolvable. Graham Bell EDItEUR Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Feb 2019, at 17:58, Graham Bell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Paul - on the whole I would not advise jumping down this rabbit hole, but you might want to think about these librarians who think DOI is not dereferencable. > > Graham Bell > EDItEUR > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 19 Feb 2019, at 17:06, Martynas Jusevičius <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> doi: and isbn: schemes are not HTTP-dereferenceable. But it does not >> mean they do not form valid URIs, in RDF or otherwise. >> >> https://www.w3.org/TR/uri-clarification/ >> >>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 5:09 PM Young,Jeff (OR) <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> These unresolvable URI schemes are from the days when web standards didn’t support http URIs for things that weren’t web resources. That changed with httpRange-14 (2005), which officially allowed http URIs to be used to identify anything, enabling linked data (2006). >>> >>> >>> >>> The old way of defining/registering URI schemes that don’t have a corresponding protocol lost their value as a solution. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jefef >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Martynas Jusevičius <[log in to unmask]> >>> Reply-To: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask]> >>> Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 10:59 AM >>> To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> >>> Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI >>> >>> >>> >>> doi: and isbn: are both URN schemes, as far as I know. >>> >>> For example >>> >>> "urn:isbn:0-486-27557-4 "^^xsd:anyURI >>> >>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 16.52, Tim Thompson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks, Jeff--I was just about to point to the Wikidata approach as well. Isolating the uniquely identifying component from the IRI allows for greater flexibility and supports persistence: a formatter URL can be supplied (and potentially changed when needed) to dereference the identifier as an IRI and potentially include that in serialized output [1]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P244#P1921 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tim A. Thompson >>> Discovery Metadata Librarian >>> Yale University Library >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:39 AM Young,Jeff (OR) <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> I like how Wikidata deals with this in their RDF. Each identifier scheme gets its own property, which can then be described in various ways. For example: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P244 >>> >>> >>> >>> When you go to use that property as an external ID on items, which allows you to elaborate on that specific identifier using qualifiers, such as here: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q963044#P434 >>> >>> >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Simeon Warner <[log in to unmask]> >>> Reply-To: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask]> >>> Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 10:24 AM >>> To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> >>> Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with Lars on both counts. An unquoted URI in RDF does not stand >>> for the identifier, it stands for the resource. Thus, ugly as it is, >>> there is no option except using a literal. One might paraphrase: >>> >>> "The first rule of identifier club is that there is no way to talk about >>> identifiers" >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Simeon >>> >>> >>>>> On 2/19/19 5:32 AM, Svensson, Lars wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:49 AM, Adrian Pohl wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 19.02.19 04:03, Dan Scott wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> In a linked data context, I think that forcing a URI to be >>>>>> represented as a literal (with a blank node as a bonus), instead of as >>>>>> the URI it is, is an anti-pattern. >>>>> >>>>> I agree, but as I pointed out in the last email I also think that it is >>>>> bad practice to use an URI when you are talking _about_ the URI (like it >>>>> is bad practice to not add quotations when you are talking about a word >>>>> in a written sentence). >>>> >>>> I tend to agree with Adrian here: We're talking about the identifier as a sequence of characters. >>>> >>>>> But there is a third option, we should definitely consider: In my >>>>> opinion the best approach is to only use non-URI identifiers in a >>>>> bf:identifiedBy statement so that the question does not come up. In the >>>>> case that you have different URIs denoting the same resource it probably >>>>> is best practice to use schema:sameAs or something similar to state that >>>>> those URIs refer to the same thing. >>>> >>>> Here I tend to disagree with Adrian: We should not limit ourselves to non-URI identifiers. >>>> >>>> I'm also not quite happy with the use of schema:URL (what if we use IRIs?). My preferred pattern would be to use dct:type to say what kind of identifier it is and have a set of skos:Concepts to represent the identifier types. (I know, the definition of dct:type says that the rdfs:range is rdfs:Class, but I _think_ that the DCMI Usage Board currently is working on relaxing that to >>>> >>>> dct:type a rdf:Property ; >>>> schema:rangeIncludes rdfs:Class . >>>> ) [1]. >>>> >>>> That way we'd get: >>>> >>>> @prefix bf: <http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe/> . >>>> @prefix rdf: <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#> . >>>> @prefix dct: <http://purl.org/dc/terms/> . >>>> @prefix skos: <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#> . >>>> >>>> <http://example.org/2335409#Work> a bf:Text, bf:Work ; >>>> bf:identifiedBy [ a bf:Identifier ; >>>> dct:type bf:URI ; >>>> rdf:value "http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612" >>>> ] . >>>> >>>> bf:URI a skos:Concept . >>>> >>>> [1] https://github.com/dcmi/usage/blob/master/minutes/2018/2018-11-20.dcub-decisions.md >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Lars >>>>