Jeff, I think we could address this issue better if we had a real live use case, which I still don’t think we have. I believe we are in agreement that you don’t want to supply the issn for a resource via the URI for that issn using bf:identifiedBy, but rather by the issn itself (using bf:identifiedBy).. Would you agree?
I think we have also established that if the URI resolves to a description of a Work, and it happens to be a URI for an ISSN, you CAN say:
<URI for issn> a bf:Work
that is, you DO use the URI form, not a quoted string. But you don’t want to express the fact that a given URI resolves to a description of a work using bf:identifiedBy. Would you agree?
So then, what is a use case for supplying a URI via bf:identifiedBy?
Ray
> On Feb 28, 2019, at 12:17 PM, Young,Jeff (OR) <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Is it BIBFRAME's intention to create a barrier from the linked data cloud by treating URIs as literals?
>
> Jeff
> From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Svensson, Lars <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 7:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> On Friday, February 22, 2019 8:42 PM, Denenberg, Ray wrote:
>
> > I’m still wondering why you’d want to do this:
> >
> > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [
> > a some:type ;
> > rdf:value “ http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1084-5305 <http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1084-5305>” ]
> >
> > (quoted or not)
> >
> > Vs.
> >
> > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [
> > a bf:Issn ;
> > rdf:value “1084-5305” ]
>
> You're right, Ray: I don't want to do the first when it comes to ISSNs. If, however, the canonical identifier for a resource happens to be a URI, I'd want to treat that URI as any other identifier and put it in quotes.
>
> Best,
>
> Lars
>
> >
> >
> > From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum
> > <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Svensson, Lars
> > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:26 AM
> > To: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > Re your question if „the requirement to quote the ISSN URI as a string when used
> > as the bf:Issn object of bf:identifiedBy hold true?” :
> >
> > My take would be that an instance of the class bf:Issn cannot be a quoted string
> > since that would lead to a literal in the subject position:
> >
> > some:resource bf:identifiedBy “http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN <http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN>” .
> >
> > which implies
> >
> > “http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN <http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN>” a bf:Issn .
> >
> > since we have
> >
> > bf:Issn rdfs:subClassOf bf:Identifier.
> >
> > If we on the other hand have
> >
> > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [
> > a bf:Issn ;
> > rdf:value “http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN <http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN>” .
> > ] .
> >
> > we should be fine.
> >
> > Or did I misunderstand your proposal?
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Lars
> >
> > *** Lesen. Hören. Wissen. Deutsche Nationalbibliothek ***
> > --
> > Dr. Lars G. Svensson
> > Deutsche Nationalbibliothek
> > Informationsinfrastruktur
> > Adickesallee 1
> > 60322 Frankfurt am Main
> > Telefon: +49 69 1525-1752
> > Telefax: +49 69 1525-1799
> > mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > http://www.dnb.de <http://www.dnb.de/>
> >
> > From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Dan Scott
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:45 PM
> > To: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI
> >
> > Ray et al:
> >
> > Thank you to both the BIBFRAME mailing list and the LC BIBFRAME team for taking
> > this seriously.
> >
> > > Still, bibframe does not preclude declaring that a particular URI is an identifier for
> > a particular resource (although we would still welcome a use case).
> >
> > ISSNs have had dereferenceable URIs for almost two years now
> > (https://www.issn.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/ISSN- <https://www.issn.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/ISSN->
> > LinkedDataApplicationProfile-v0_9.pdf). Does the requirement to quote the ISSN
> > URI as a string when used as the bf:Issn object of bf:identifiedBy hold true?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > P.S. In a side channel, Sarven Capadisli pointed me at the 2017 document
> > https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/QuotingURIs.html <https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/QuotingURIs.html> which describes a rationale for
> > quoting URIs in certain situations, where owl:sameAs may result in two different
> > URIs no longer being distinguished properly. I found this helpful, although I don't
> > think it comes into play here, as bf:identifiedBy does not make any owl:sameAs
> > assertions that would trigger the detrimental outcomes outlined in the design note.
> >
> > On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 15:58, Denenberg, Ray <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> > The LC bibframe team discussed this at length this morning.
> >
> > There were only about four messages at the time and now there are now many
> > more, too many to keep up with it all. Among those early messages there seemed to
> > be only this use case:
> >
> > <http://example.org/2335409#Work <http://example.org/2335409#Work>> a bf:Text, bf:Work ;
> > bf:identifiedBy <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612 <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612>>.
> >
> > Which seems to say, there is a work, http://example.org/2335409#Work <http://example.org/2335409#Work>, at
> > institution A, and this, http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612 <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612>, at institution B,
> > is the same work.
> >
> > (Nevermind what constitutes sameness - whatever institution A considers it to
> > be. Could be matched based on author and title for example.)
> >
> > We don’t think this is an appropriate use of
> > bf:identifiedBy. http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612 <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612> doesn't identify
> > http://example.org/2335409#Work <http://example.org/2335409#Work>. Rather, the assertion is that they are the same
> > resource.
> >
> > We recognize that there is a need to make such an assertion, that bibframe
> > currently does not provide one, and we will investigate this further.
> >
> > Still, bibframe does not preclude declaring that a particular URI is an identifier for a
> > particular resource (although we would still welcome a use case). As has been
> > suggested, it should be quoted (a string) rather than a resource. bf:identifiedBy is
> > intended for string identifiers, not for identifiers that are themselves linked data
> > resources.
> >
> > Example:
> >
> > <http://example.org/workA <http://example.org/workA>>
> > bf:identifiedBy [
> > a xs:anyURI ;
> > rdf:value “http://example.org/identifierA <http://example.org/identifierA>” ]
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum
> > <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Dan Scott
> > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 7:45 PM
> > To: mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI
> >
> > While the description for bf:Identifier
> > (http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe.html#c_Identifier <http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe.html#c_Identifier>) is "Token or name that is
> > associated with a resource, such as a URI or an ISBN", its subclasses include bf:Isbn
> > but not bf:Uri[1].
> >
> > For now I've interpreted this as "just use bf:Identifier if you have a URI," but if that
> > interpretation is correct, it might make sense to clarify the description.
> >
> > Example:
> >
> > @prefix bf: <http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe/ <http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe/>> .
> > <http://example.org/2335409#Work <http://example.org/2335409#Work>> a bf:Text, bf:Work ;
> > bf:identifiedBy <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612 <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612>>.
> >
> > <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612 <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612>> a bf:Identifier .
