Hello, I agree with Lars in that cool URIs such as http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/<issn>” should not be treated as canonical identifiers, since they are not based on identifier standards and it is often impossible to know if they will persist or not even if they contain a standard identifier (the ones in the ISSN database will probably be quite long-lived). But HTTP URIs based on persistent identifiers such as DOIs and URNs are canonical identifiers. So it is OK to have > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [ > a bf:urn:issn ; > rdf:value “http://urn.issn.org/urn:issn:1084-5305” ] or, preferably > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [ > a bf:urn:issn ; > rdf:value “urn:issn:1084-5305” ] when it is no longer necessary to combine the resolver address with URNs to make them actionable. All urn:issn PIDs will be resolved in the ISSN database, so from DNS point of view urn:issn is piece of cake, compared with e.g. urn:isbn which has multiple resolvers and the right one can only be found by parsing the ISBN strings). Whether ARK, DOI, Handle and URN are a priori canonical identifiers is a good question. For example, ISO DOI standard makes it clear that DOIs must not be used instead of other ISO identifier standards. Therefore the DOI for a book which has an ISBN must be based on the ISBN. That is, it must be an ISBN-A as specified in ISBN and DOI standards. If however somebody gives the book a DOI that has nothing to do with ISBN or does not follow ISBN-A syntax (and this is happening as we speak all over the place since people either do not know DOI standard or do not care), is that wrongly established DOI a canonical identifier for the book, or should it be treated as an invalid DOI (which is nevertheless actionable)? As regards urn:issn's such as http://urn.issn.org/urn:issn:1084-5305, the National Library of Finland and ISSN International Centre are working together to make them actionable. ISSN database is a good platform for such an experiment since a single URN can be mapped to at least three URIs in the database: ISSN and ISSN-L metadata records and the homepage of the (electronic) serial. The first two mappings are trivial, the third one is not. In order to support one URN - multiple URLs -resolution we shall use the URN R-component feature from RFC 8141 with which it is possible to send resolution related commands to the resolver. Best, Juha -----Original Message----- From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Svensson, Lars Sent: torstai 28. helmikuuta 2019 14.44 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI Hi Ray, On Friday, February 22, 2019 8:42 PM, Denenberg, Ray wrote: > I’m still wondering why you’d want to do this: > > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [ > a some:type ; > rdf:value “ http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1084-5305” ] > > (quoted or not) > > Vs. > > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [ > a bf:Issn ; > rdf:value “1084-5305” ] You're right, Ray: I don't want to do the first when it comes to ISSNs. If, however, the canonical identifier for a resource happens to be a URI, I'd want to treat that URI as any other identifier and put it in quotes. Best, Lars > > > From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Svensson, Lars > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:26 AM > To: mailto:[log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI > > Dan, > > Re your question if „the requirement to quote the ISSN URI as a string > when used as the bf:Issn object of bf:identifiedBy hold true?” : > > My take would be that an instance of the class bf:Issn cannot be a > quoted string since that would lead to a literal in the subject position: > > some:resource bf:identifiedBy “http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN” . > > which implies > > “http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN” a bf:Issn . > > since we have > > bf:Issn rdfs:subClassOf bf:Identifier. > > If we on the other hand have > > some:resource bf:identifiedBy [ > a bf:Issn ; > rdf:value “http://issn.org/resource/ISSN/1234-5678#ISSN” . > ] . > > we should be fine. > > Or did I misunderstand your proposal? > > Best, > > Lars > > *** Lesen. Hören. Wissen. Deutsche Nationalbibliothek *** > -- > Dr. Lars G. Svensson > Deutsche Nationalbibliothek > Informationsinfrastruktur > Adickesallee 1 > 60322 Frankfurt am Main > Telefon: +49 69 1525-1752 > Telefax: +49 69 1525-1799 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > http://www.dnb.de > > From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dan Scott > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:45 PM > To: mailto:[log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI > > Ray et al: > > Thank you to both the BIBFRAME mailing list and the LC BIBFRAME team > for taking this seriously. > > > Still, bibframe does not preclude declaring that a particular URI is > > an identifier for > a particular resource (although we would still welcome a use case). > > ISSNs have had dereferenceable URIs for almost two years now > (https://www.issn.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/ISSN- > LinkedDataApplicationProfile-v0_9.pdf). Does the requirement to quote > the ISSN URI as a string when used as the bf:Issn object of bf:identifiedBy hold true? > > Thanks, > Dan > > P.S. In a side channel, Sarven Capadisli pointed me at the 2017 > document https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/QuotingURIs.html which > describes a rationale for quoting URIs in certain situations, where > owl:sameAs may result in two different URIs no longer being > distinguished properly. I found this helpful, although I don't think > it comes into play here, as bf:identifiedBy does not make any owl:sameAs assertions that would trigger the detrimental outcomes outlined in the design note. > > On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 15:58, Denenberg, Ray <mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote: > The LC bibframe team discussed this at length this morning. > > There were only about four messages at the time and now there are now > many more, too many to keep up with it all. Among those early > messages there seemed to be only this use case: > > <http://example.org/2335409#Work> a bf:Text, bf:Work ; > bf:identifiedBy <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612>. > > Which seems to say, there is a work, http://example.org/2335409#Work, > at institution A, and this, http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612, > at institution B, is the same work. > > (Nevermind what constitutes sameness - whatever institution A > considers it to be. Could be matched based on author and title for > example.) > > We don’t think this is an appropriate use of bf:identifiedBy. > http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612 doesn't identify > http://example.org/2335409#Work. Rather, the assertion is that they > are the same resource. > > We recognize that there is a need to make such an assertion, that > bibframe currently does not provide one, and we will investigate this further. > > Still, bibframe does not preclude declaring that a particular URI is > an identifier for a particular resource (although we would still > welcome a use case). As has been suggested, it should be quoted (a > string) rather than a resource. bf:identifiedBy is intended for > string identifiers, not for identifiers that are themselves linked data resources. > > Example: > > <http://example.org/workA> > bf:identifiedBy [ > a xs:anyURI ; > rdf:value “http://example.org/identifierA” ] > > Ray > > From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Dan Scott > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 7:45 PM > To: mailto:[log in to unmask] > Subject: [BIBFRAME] When a bf:Identifier is a URI > > While the description for bf:Identifier > (http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe.html#c_Identifier) is "Token or > name that is associated with a resource, such as a URI or an ISBN", > its subclasses include bf:Isbn but not bf:Uri. > > For now I've interpreted this as "just use bf:Identifier if you have a > URI," but if that interpretation is correct, it might make sense to clarify the description. > > Example: > > @prefix bf: <http://id.loc.gov/ontologies/bibframe/> . > <http://example.org/2335409#Work> a bf:Text, bf:Work ; > bf:identifiedBy <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612>. > > <http://worldcat.org/entity/work/id/638612> a bf:Identifier .