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I’m sorry, I did not mean to offend nor was I referring to any particular post in this thread. I was thinking back generally over many years when this sort of thing has come up on the list from time to time.

Believe me, however, as a cataloger that deals with classical authors, I do indeed deal with very large files of name-title records, so I’m not unaware of the problem; again my comments were not in any way directed to your posts.

Bob

Robert L. Maxwell
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Herrold, Charles
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 1:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"


       Speaking only for myself, I was not engaging in recrimination, nor "needless complaining."  As a music cataloger, this hit a nerve.  Some of you don't have to deal with very large files of name-title records.  As for the 667, music catalogers have been very liberal in the use of that field to explain their actions; while such explanations usually involve a choice of title, medium of performance, etc., I'm sure I have seen ruminations on the name itself.

Chuck Herrold

________________________________
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Robert Maxwell <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 3:42:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"


Thinking about this conversation the last couple of days, a few legitimate reasons were given why the form in Arnold’s 1XX might have been changed. It turns out they weren’t applicable in this case, but there are in fact cases where it’s not at all obvious why a 1XX form was changed, occasionally leading to heated discussions and recriminations. I wonder if it might not be a good idea to have a field where the cataloger making a change could explain why the change was made. I know NACO has not done this until now, but it might forestall needless speculation and complaining. Possibly 667?



For example



667  Authorized access point changed from A to B because of unresolvable conflict in XYZ database.



Or whatever the reason. 667 has been available all along for this sort of thing but NACO policies have discouraged (if not forbidden) notes explaining a cataloger’s reasoning for making a choice such as changing a 1XX, or for that matter, the choice of form when the entity is first established.



Bob



Robert L. Maxwell
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568



From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Frank, Paul
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 1:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"



Hi everyone,



I just removed the dates from the authorized access point for the composer Malcolm Arnold (LCCN n  79140955). The updated NAR is in distribution. And now that OCLC is current with the loading of NACO files (thanks, Cynthia and colleagues!), the updated NAR should be reflected in OCLC by tomorrow.



The perception of an editing war involving the authority record for the composer and the authority record for the gastroenterologist may have actually been an unfortunate side-effect of the delay in NACO loading over the last couple of weeks.



Thanks, everyone,



Paul



Paul Frank

Coordinator, NACO and SACO Programs

Library of Congress

202-707-1570

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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Herrold, Charles
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2019 8:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"



    Here is the record that triggered this unfortunate revision:



010  no2019023922
040  Nz ǂb eng ǂe rda ǂc Nz
1001 Arnold, M. ǂq (Malcolm)
370  ǂe Hawke's Bay (N.Z.) ǂ2 naf
373  New Zealand Society of Gastroenterology ǂ2 naf
374  Gastroenterologists ǂ2 lcsh
377  eng
378  ǂq Malcolm
4001 Arnold, Malcolm
670  A critical analysis of the gastroenterology specialist workforce in New Zealand, 2018: ǂb title page (M. Arnold, FRACP) page 10 (Dr Malcolm Arnold, FRCP, FRACP, gastroenterologist (Hawkes Bay), President elect NZSG [New Zealand Society of Gastroenterology])



      LC has subsequently changed that 400 to Arnold, Malcolm ǂc (Gastroenterologist)





I think there was an obligation to find a suitable qualifier, not an onerous task given RDA's flexibility on that point.  Searching Arnold, Malcolm in the NZ OPAC this morning retrieves the form without dates. My point is worth making again: there are 159 name-title records for the composer, and every one of those will have to be revised if NZ's change is allowed to stand.  That's what I call really compounding everyone's file maintenance. I hope LC's music catalogers are following this discussion.  (I will make sure they know.)



Chuck Herrold

________________________________

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Moore, Richard <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 2:01:29 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"



Do we know for certain that NZ don’t have a heading in one of their own databases, with which this conflicts? I was always under the impression that additions could be made for domestic conflicts as well as for conflicts within LC/NAF.



I think that once legal data is added to a heading, even if it is of debatable necessity, it compounds the problem for everyone’s file maintenance if people start taking the data off again. I’ve always told people in my team “well it’s done now, so leave alone”.





Regards

Richard



________________________

Richard Moore

Authority Control Team Manager

The British Library



Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546104

E-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>







From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Herrold, Charles
Sent: 08 April 2019 17:19
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"



    Well, I hope the dates go away, because there are 159 name-title records that have not been "corrected"!  If I read the timestamps correctly, LC removed the date within a couple of weeks of the change, at the end of February, but the New Zealand folks went back in in late March to restore their version.  I think someone at LC ought to send a cease-and-desist order to Wellington.

Chuck Herrold

Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh

________________________________

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Hostage, John <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 12:01:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"



This is a recurring problem in the NAF, where dates are added to a name even though there is no need to do so under current policies.  That can cause unnecessary bib maintenance, but on the other hand, unqualified personal names can be a real pain in authority control as well.



The changes to Arnold seem to have been sparked when Arnold, M. ǂq (Malcolm) was established.  It had a 400 which was creating a conflict.  LC resolved that conflict in the standard way by adding an occupation, so now the composer doesn’t need the dates in the heading.



------------------------------------------

John Hostage

Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger

Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services

Langdell Hall 194

Harvard Law School Library

Cambridge, MA 02138

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+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)

+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)
ISNI 0000 0000 4028 0917



From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ehlert, Mark K.
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:42
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [PCCLIST] Heading "Arnold, Malcolm"



PCCLIST:



The 100 field heading for Malcolm Arnold (n  79140955) has seen its $d come and go over the past few weeks.  Will there be a final decision on the matter, considering there are plenty of name-title headings that may or may not need attention as well?



--

Mark K. Ehlert                 Alma: NA02
Cataloging and Metadata        Primo: MT NA01

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O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library

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