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I have dealt many times with stickers on the label itself. For this I 
moisten my finger tip and rub on paper sticker, moistening more as I go. You 
don't want to pull a sticker off because it may damage the label underneath. 
I just rub until the paper starts to soften and it will ball up and roll 
off. I have done this many times with success. Usually labels are glossy so 
glue doesn't adhere so much and the label won't get wet this way. Can be 
done too on the record surface itself -Mickey Clark

Mickey Clark
710 Westminster Avenue West
Penticton BC
Canada
250-462-7881
V2A 1K8
http://mcproductions.ca
1-250-462-7881

-----Original Message----- 
From: Corey Bailey
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] cleaning Vogue disc

Hi Bryce,

IIRC, some of the Vogue discs, if not all, were manufactured using a
paper or cardboard layer for the graphics. So, be careful with liquid
solutions because of possible swelling of the cardboard layer which, can
cause surface cracking.

Best,

Corey

Corey Bailey Audio Engineering
www.baileyzone.net

On 10/30/2019 9:13 AM, bARC wrote:
> Thanks to all who replied.  Small test revealed paper was not glued, but 
> adhered because of water damage to the box it was in.  Simple light 
> application of distilled water with a dampened pad removed it easily.  It 
> was the least of our problems as 24,000 78s arrived badly packed, 8,000 
> broken.  For every near mint Bessie Smith found (8) there were 10 Blues 
> and R+B trashed.  Bye Bye the Jimmy Witherspoon's.  Hurts so bad… 
> b.george
>
>> On Oct 30, 2019, at 11:02 AM, Bryce Roe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Indeed, likely less risky!
>>
>> We’ve also had to do some label removal on lacquer discs in order to 
>> access inner-most grooves, so was interesting to read Nathan’s input 
>> here, thanks for sharing! We used methyl cellulose with success, based on 
>> careful testing of the adhesive and inks first.
>>
>> Anyway not suggesting that you proceed with any of these without 
>> understanding all the variables first. Rather, my paper lab colleagues 
>> have been able to offer their expertise on a few audio projects where 
>> papers and adhesives have been involved, so curious what others have 
>> encountered! If you’re able to learn more about the disc, paper and 
>> adhesive formulations I’d be happy to consult with them. Good luck!
>>
>> Bryce
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Bryce Roe
>>
>> Director of Audio Preservation Services
>> NEDCC | Northeast Document Conservation Center
>> 100 Brickstone Square
>> Andover, MA 01810
>> 978-470-1010, ext. 237
>>
>> On 10/30/19, 10:21 AM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List on 
>> behalf of Jeff Willens" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of 
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> IIRC, Vogue discs are not lacquer, but vinyl. According to 
>>> http://voguepicturerecords.org/records.html: "The records were produced 
>>> using a complicated process whereby a central core aluminum disc was 
>>> sandwiched between the paper illustrations and vinyl."
>>>
>>> So it may not be as risky as lacquer to find the right treatment.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 16:27:06 +0000, Nathan Coy <[log in to unmask]> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The very short version of one process is:
>>>>
>>>> I worked with a paper conservator several years ago on a similar 
>>>> problem. The caveat (first) is that there are different types of 
>>>> adhesives, some are water soluble some are not, which is what Bryce is 
>>>> getting at I am guessing. In our case we have used the process to 
>>>> remove lacquer disc labels affixed with water soluble adhesive that 
>>>> feature non-water soluble ink when the label covers grooves. There is a 
>>>> gore text sheet that can be trimmed and damp blotter paper against the 
>>>> gore-tex. It is similar to the damp blotter pack on this page: 
>>>> https://www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/PMG_Humidification,_Drying_and_Flattening. 
>>>> We used reverse osmosis water. One can also use mylar sheet 
>>>> trimmed/with cut outs, over the gore-text (or under) to targer specific 
>>>> areas. There are some different concerns than when applying it to disc 
>>>> as opposed to photographs, but  the cons section is relevant, including 
>>>> the one:
>>>>
>>>> "Empirical knowledge and skill are needed to create the perfect balance 
>>>> of humidification within the packet for photographic materials. Too 
>>>> little water in the system and the photograph needs long periods of 
>>>> time that may be detrimental to it. Too much water in the system and 
>>>> the photograph can become too saturated or wet with water, beyond 
>>>> dampness."
>>>>
>>>> The "pack" can be trimmed and sized only to apply it to the spot where 
>>>> it is needed which is a plus when it comes to introducing any moisture 
>>>> to a laquer disc.
>>>>
>>>> Before using, it calls for targeted testing of the disc (and other 
>>>> materials in contact wit the) surface, although knowing vogue discs, 
>>>> the surface is pretty durable and there are many issues/copies of them 
>>>> out there (generally).
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, It may not be worth the time required, unless there is something 
>>>> particularly unique or special about the disc. But it may be an 
>>>> opportunity to test process. We developed/used it for laquer and very 
>>>> rare discs that were in good shape and featured no cracking. Even with 
>>>> water soluble adhesive it may need to set for several hours to possibly 
>>>> overnight (in our experience).
>>>>
>>>> Nathan Coy
>>>>
>>>> Sound Archives Librarian
>>>>
>>>> Archive of Recorded Sound
>>>>
>>>> Stanford University Libraries
>>>>
>>>> Work: 646-716-1731
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please consider the content and context of exchange before forwarding 
>>>> or printing this message.
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List 
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Bryce Roe <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 6:45 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] cleaning Vogue disc
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Any idea what kind of paper..or glue (realize that ones a tall 
>>>> order)?
>>>>
>>>> Currently collaborating with folks in the paper conservation labs here 
>>>> on carefully removing paper towel that is stuck to (nearly embedded 
>>>> into) lacquer discs. Would be happy to consult with our labs if you 
>>>> wanted to send some photos.
>>>>
>>>> Bryce
>>>> --
>>>> Bryce Roe
>>>>
>>>> Director of Audio Preservation Services
>>>> NEDCC | Northeast Document Conservation Center
>>>> 100 Brickstone Square
>>>> Andover, MA 01810
>>>> 978-470-1010, ext. 237
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/29/19, 9:35 AM, "Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List 
>>>> on behalf of bARC" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of 
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Folks - Advice on best practices cleaning paper glued to a Vogue 78rpm 
>>>>> picture disc?  thx.  b.george ARC