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Dear Charles,

Thanks for sharing your observation and experience in this matter! The hyphenated phrase in your first sentence suddenly dawned on me that the subtle difference between the two is mostly invisible to OPAC users. I say mostly, because a few users may still want to see associated MARC bib records.

A few institutions are not using MARC anymore. I don’t know how catalogers distinguish $v Art and $x Art as subdivisions. I was just wondering if those who use bibframe or some other types of programs for cataloging might be able to answer that and solve the “puzzle” for us. How do they convert such text strings to MARC format?

Admittedly, for library users’ sake, the use of lcgft in added 655s can help alleviate the problem.

Best regards,

Yang

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Charles Croissant
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 10:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] $v Art vs $x Art

Dear Yang,

I'm sure you are correct that problems crept in in the course of trying to convert the 650 string Athena (Greek deity) in art to a 600 00 Athena (Greek deity)--Art.

An additional thought:
Aside from the text of H1100 which you reference, another problem at work here is that OCLC's validation algorithm is not (yet) sophisticated enough to fully distinguish between correct and incorrect use of $v in the situation you describe.

Currently, both strings

600 00 Athena $c (Greek deity) $x Art $v Congresses
and
600 00 Athena $c (Greek deity) $v Art $v Congresses

will control/validate in OCLC, leading catalogers to assume that the subfielding $v Art $v Congresses is correct.

It seems to me that generally, one can only make one statement about form in a given subject string, meaning that it is very rare to have two subfield $v's in succession, and generally, the subfield $v will be the final subdivision in the string.

I know that there are some exceptions, such as under --Bibliography, for example sh 99001291 $v Bibliography $v Exhibitions (though I have sometimes wondered if the coding here shouldn't properly be $x Bibliography $v Exhibitions).

All of this points up the difficulties catalogers have long struggled with in making the distinction between form and topicality in subject strings.

Charles Croissant
Saint Louis University

________________________________
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Yang Wang <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: [External] Re: [PCCLIST] $v Art vs $x Art


Given that these bibs are rather old. It is entirely possible that catalogers didn’t make such mistakes. It was perhaps caused by OCLC’s quality control algorithms when they tried to convert



650 #0 Athena (Greek deity) in art $v Congresses

650 #0 Athena (Greek deity) in art $v Exhibitions



to the current headings, resulting in a mixed bag. Just a thought. In any case, I suggest that H 1110 be edited either to list $x Art by itself or insert it in the current instruction.



Yang



From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Richard Amelung
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] $v Art vs $x Art



$v or $x   Art



How many times have we been to a museum, looked at an object and said, "But IS it art?"      Unfortunately for Art, we have a code for what it IS and what it's ABOUT, but none recording the critic's eye indicating what it ISN'T!



😉



Richard C. Amelung, Ph. D., M.A.L.S.

Professor Emeritus of Legal Research

Vincent C. Immel Law Library

Saint Louis University School of Law

100 N. Tucker Blvd.

St. Louis, MO   63101-1930

Phone:  314.977.2743

Fax:   314.977.3966





________________________________

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Salisbury, Preston <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 7:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: [External] Re: $v Art vs $x Art



Maybe someone thought an exhibition was a congress of pictures? That only requires not understanding what a congress is and not knowing that there is a perfectly good subject heading that already exists.



Or maybe x and v are just too close on the keyboard and the cataloger pushed the wrong one. We can hope...



Preston Salisbury

Assistant Professor and Monographic Cataloger

Mississippi State University

________________________________

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Kuperman, Aaron <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 7:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] $v Art vs $x Art



​$v - is the form/genre; $x - is about the form genre.  How you can have a Congress of $v is beyond me (perhaps the pictures got together at night after the museum closed and started conferring).



Aaron Kuperman

LC Law Cataloging Section

This is NOT an official communication from my employer.









________________________________

From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Yang Wang <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 8:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [PCCLIST] $v Art vs $x Art



What is the difference between the following subject headings (Cf. bib (OCoLC) 52442717) vs (OCLC) 150835830)?



Athena ‡c (Greek deity) ‡v Art ‡v Congresses

Athena ‡c (Greek deity) ‡x Art ‡v Congresses



And (Cf. (OCoLC) 45539635) vs (OCoLC) 466762391)?



Athena ‡c (Greek deity) ‡v Art ‡v Exhibitions

Athena ‡c (Greek deity) ‡x Art ‡v Exhibitions



The SHM instruction under “H 1110 $v Art” seems to have been causing this problem on a massive scale in OCLC. The second part of the sentence where it states “[Use for] … or works for discussing such art” is perhaps the culprit. This part actually refers to the use of “$x Art” (lccn sh 99001934) and not “$v” (lccn sh 99001267).



For the sake of clarity, why not insert “$x Art” somewhere in the text?



Yang