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It's probably more complicated than A to B to A.  The official language of
the university may have been Catalan or Catalan+Spanish for a while in the
1930s (maybe 1933 to 1939, from what I see in Catalan Wikipedia?), but in
the 19th century it was certainly Spanish, not Catalan, and earlier than
that it may have been Latin.  So that would give you C to B to A to B to
A.  How far do we follow this logic?

Robert Rendall



Principal Serials Cataloger

Original and Special Materials Cataloging, Columbia University Libraries

102 Butler Library, 535 West 114th Street, New York, NY 10027

tel.: 212 851 2449  fax: 212 854 5167



C.V. Starr East Asian Library, Columbia University Libraries

307 Kent Hall, 1140 Amsterdam Avenue, New York, NY 10027

tel.: 212 854 2579  fax: 212 662 6286


e-mail: [log in to unmask]


On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 1:13 PM Adam L Schiff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Very interesting.  If this is a situation of A to B to A, then I would
> assume that any current resource published, say, in 2020, that comes out
> with the name B on it should be recorded in an access point as A.  After
> all, at any given time a single entity may only have one preferred name and
> one authorized access point in RDA.  So that conflicts with the idea of
> using whatever name appears on a resource as the access point.  Say I have
> a conference proceedings in Spanish for a conference held in 2020 and on
> the title page it says it was organized by "Universidad de Barcelona".  In
> the access point that I might make for the organizer, I should use
> Universitat de Barcelona, because that is preferred name for the university
> in 2020.
>
> If possible, a 667 that gives guidance on even approximate years that the
> access point applies vs the other access point would be very helpful.
>
> Adam
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on
> behalf of Richard Murray <[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 2, 2020 7:26 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> *Subject:* Re: Universidad de Barcelona vs. Universitat de Barcelona
>
>
> And one more piece I had forgotten: somehow this came up in conversation
> while I was talking to someone at LC (probably Paul Frank), who vaguely
> remembered that somebody in PSD had investigated this same issue and had
> come to the same conclusion, that it was a Name A to Name B to Name A
> situation with fuzzy edges. If you look at the record for Universitat de
> Barcelona (n 99012058) in authorities.loc.gov you will see this note:
>
>
>
> *952*
>
> __* |a *Catalan and Spanish names treated as a name change, per Desc Pol,
> 7/6/2018
>
>
>
> But of course that doesn’t show up in the NARs in OCLC. So it’s definitely
> time to document this in a 667 so there will be a paper trail next time
> this comes up. 😊
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Richard Murray
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 2, 2020 10:16 AM
> *To:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>
> *Subject:* RE: Universidad de Barcelona vs. Universitat de Barcelona
>
>
>
> This is actually one that we investigated at Duke a while ago because we
> were confused and thought it was an earlier-later, but we couldn’t find any
> dates or clear pattern of usage. We contacted the folks at UdeB via email,
> and then one of the Duke catalogers happened to be in Barcelona for an
> extended period later that summer, and she actually went to the library
> there and spoke to the university archives staff about it.
>
>
>
> It seems this was a case of name A changing to name B and then changing
> back to name A. The folks at UdeB said it was originally Universitat, then
> the Franco government made them change it to Universidad, and then
> post-Franco they gradually started using Universitat again. The folks there
> couldn’t seem to come up with exact dates of when any of these changes
> happened because they all seem to have been gradual changes with
> transitional periods during which both forms were used with no clear
> pattern. We had intended to document all that  in a 667, with instructions
> to use whichever form appears on the piece being cataloged, but I guess it
> fell through the cracks because a couple of us were working on it.
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rich Murray
>
> Principal Cataloger
>
> Catalog Librarian for Spanish and Portuguese Languages | Rare Books |
> Sequential Art
>
> Duke University Libraries
>
> Durham, North Carolina, USA
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> https://orcid.org/0000-0001-6507-026X |  http://viaf.org/viaf/119627525
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> *On
> Behalf Of *Adam L Schiff
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 10:02 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [PCCLIST] Universidad de Barcelona vs. Universitat de
> Barcelona
>
>
>
> Lisa,
>
>
>
> If that's the case, then it would be good if someone could indicate when
> the name change occurred and link these names by earlier/later references.
> And perhaps new 410s are needed from the other language form with date
> qualifiers.  The reason it came up was that someone here put Universidad de
> Barcelona as the affiliation of a person in the person's NAR, but the
> person's webpage at the university only says Universitat de Barcelona.  Our
> cataloger was clearly confused about which name to use.  Perhaps even a 667
> note that says what time period each name should be used for.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Adam
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on
> behalf of Lisa Furubotten <[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 6:39 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> *Subject:* Re: Universidad de Barcelona vs. Universitat de Barcelona
>
>
>
> Hi there,  I’d have to look it up for you, but at some point because of
> nationalism, the name of the University officially changed from the Spanish
> form to the Catalan form.
>
> ;-)
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> *From:* Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> *On
> Behalf Of *Adam L Schiff
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 01, 2020 8:27 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* [PCCLIST] Universidad de Barcelona vs. Universitat de Barcelona
>
>
>
> PCC Colleagues,
>
>
>
> Can anyone figure out what is going on with these two NARs, both coded as
> RDA, and the names of which are also used for many subordinate bodies:
>
>
>
> 110 2 Universidad de Barcelona
>
> 410 2 Universitat de Catalunya
>
> 410 2 Universidad de Cataluña
>
> 410 2 University of Barcelona
>
> 510 2 Universitat de Barcelona
>
>
>
> 110 2 Universitat de Barcelona
>
> 410 2 University of Barcelona
>
> 410 2 U.B.
>
> 410 2 UB
>
> 410 2 Universität Barcelona
>
> 510 2 Universidad de Barcelona
>
>
>
> The 510s are simple see also references, and I don't see anything in
> either record to indicate that this represents an earlier/later situation.
> I'm confused why then both of these NARs exist.  NARs for subordinate
> bodies also don't make a lot of sense, some under the Spanish name and some
> under the Catalan name:
>
>
>
> Universidad de Barcelona. ǂb Departamento de Ecología
>
> Universidad de Barcelona. ǂb Departamento de Geografía
>
> Universidad de Barcelona. ǂb Departamento de Política Económica
>
>
>
> Universitat de Barcelona. ǂb Departament d'Antropologia Cultural i
> Història d'Amèrica i Àfrica
>
> Universitat de Barcelona. ǂb Departament de Biologia Animal
>
> Universitat de Barcelona. ǂb Departament de Filologia Catalana
>
> Universitat de Barcelona. ǂb Departament de Geografia Física i Anàlisi
> Geogràfica Regional
>
>
>
> And some, incorrectly I believe, mix Spanish and Catalan:
>
>
>
> 110 2 Universidad de Barcelona. ǂb Departament de Física Teòrica
>
> 410 2 Universidad de Barcelona. ǂb Facultat de Ciències Físiques. ǂb
> Departament de Física Teòrica
>
> 670    Cornella, A. Notes sobre relativitat especial, 1982: ǂb cover
> (Departament de Física Te/bborica, Facultat de Ciències Físiques,
> Universitat de Barcelona)
>
>
>
> 110 2 Universidad de Barcelona. ǂb Departament de Filologia Grega
> 670    Col·lecció El Dofí d'Arió ; 3 (ser. x-ref.) Garriga, C. La
> restauració clàssica d'Eugeni d'Ors, 1981: ǂb t.p. (Departament de
> Filologia Grega, Universitat de Barcelona)
>
>
>
> Looking at some of the 670s on subordinate body records, it's pretty clear
> that in the same time period some publications used the Spanish name and
> some used the Catalan name.  Should there really be two authority records
> for the university?  Or am I missing something?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Adam Schiff
>
> University of Washington Libraries
>
>
>
>
>