Somebody probably has better detail on this, but RCA *wanted* a format
incompatible with the Long Playing 33 & 1/3 that had recently been
introduced by Columbia.    Columbia offered to share the patent, but RCA
didn't want in and wanted to compete on format . . . at first.

Sound familiar?

Dave R

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:52 AM Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Almost all 45s in Europe and other countries outside North America have
> small holes or “optional centers” that can be pushed out. The patented RCA
> 45 system REQUIRED the large hole of all licensed manufacturers as well as
> the .1 mil microgroove stylus. The 7-inch diameter itself goes back to
> Berliner in the 1890s, so small hole 7-inches can be any speed, and since
> the patents for the 45 have expired, so 45s can also have small holes. In
> fact, they always came off the press with small holes And the large hole or
> optional push out slots always have had to be punched after initial
> cooling. But as for the instantaneous one-of-a-kind discs that were the
> subject of the original poster, they could be any speed and groove size
> that the disc cutter desired or could do. Most home machines like a
> Wilcox-Gay Recordio, or Silvertone only cut at 78 widegroove, although
> professional or semi-Pro machines always had a 33 option (as well as 78)
> back to the beginning in 1934, could be set for different groove spacing,
> and later on could be modified for 45 after 1949, and microgroove after
> 1948.  An by the way, the cutting surfaces of metal or glass base discs are
> cellulose nitrate lacquer, not vinyl or acetate.    Michael Biel.
> Get Outlook for iOS<>
> ________________________________
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <
> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Ron Roscoe <
> [log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:06:08 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.
> I don’t think the first commercial 45’s ever used a 78 sized groove. Be
> hard to get 5 minutes of music on one side of a 45 using the wider 78
> groove. The whole 45 system with changer was ready before WW2 and was held
> up because of WW2.  Do you know of any examples of 45’s with a regular
> small center hole? [9/32”?]
> Ron
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Adrian Zeffert
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized.
> Hugh:
> My reccolection is that the first 45's had a standard LP hole until the
> 'stacker' was invented for automated players. Thats why all record players
> of the 60's on up came with the 'Puck' to fit over an LP spindle for the
> revised 45. I don't know if the first 45's used a 78 needle but it is
> possible, until the BiRadial Saphire or Diamond needles were born.
> Hope other NEVECer's have other thoughts.
> I have many 78's and LP's. Cannot find my collection of 45's, probably
> lost in one of 5 moves!
> If anyone interested I have about 12, 7" reel tapes used by TWA for music
> entertainment on their aircraft. Have to wait for better weather to get
> them out of my shed. Last time i played one on my 7" deck, about 5 years
> ago the quality was excellent.
> Adrian
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 10:58 Hugh Vartanian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi group,
> I have these 5 one-of-a-kind records from my 80-odd year old friend with
> some folk music she made with other people in the mid-50's, probably in
> Greenwich Village NYC.  She asked me to help rip them to digital, some kind
> of archiving project she is involved in to save these recordings.
> I ultrasonically cleaned them last night, that appeared to go OK.  2 of
> them are the same, 12" 33-1/3, with aluminum discs inside the vinyl (one
> has a slight chip).  These play somewhat OK on my turntable although it
> sounds like there is still a bunch of dirt in the grooves.
> The other 3 are all different, 7" discs, either 45 or 78, I can't quite
> tell.  The turntable I am using only does 45 and 33.  They have a 9/32
> hole, not a 45 hole.  (were there any 45's that had a small hole?  this
> would be a hint).
> With the LP stylus on my turntable, the sound is almost inaudible and the
> tracking of the needle makes a noticeable stripe in reflected light on the
> record surface.  AGGGGAAAHH, needle-less(!) to say, I stopped immediately.
> Is it possible that these may just need a 78-sized stylus?  I do have a
> couple of turntables that do 78, but they will need some TLC (a miracord
> and an older garrard, iirc).  While I am up for trying that, I would be
> interested if anyone know someone that specializes in such efforts.  I'm
> glad to pay for the help, should the 78 turntable resurrection doesn't work
> out.  I may try the audio place in Harvard square (if they are still
> around).
> Thanks!
> Hugh
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