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Somebody probably has better detail on this, but RCA *wanted* a format incompatible with the Long Playing 33 & 1/3 that had recently been introduced by Columbia. Columbia offered to share the patent, but RCA didn't want in and wanted to compete on format . . . at first. Sound familiar? Dave R On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 9:52 AM Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Almost all 45s in Europe and other countries outside North America have > small holes or “optional centers” that can be pushed out. The patented RCA > 45 system REQUIRED the large hole of all licensed manufacturers as well as > the .1 mil microgroove stylus. The 7-inch diameter itself goes back to > Berliner in the 1890s, so small hole 7-inches can be any speed, and since > the patents for the 45 have expired, so 45s can also have small holes. In > fact, they always came off the press with small holes And the large hole or > optional push out slots always have had to be punched after initial > cooling. But as for the instantaneous one-of-a-kind discs that were the > subject of the original poster, they could be any speed and groove size > that the disc cutter desired or could do. Most home machines like a > Wilcox-Gay Recordio, or Silvertone only cut at 78 widegroove, although > professional or semi-Pro machines always had a 33 option (as well as 78) > back to the beginning in 1934, could be set for different groove spacing, > and later on could be modified for 45 after 1949, and microgroove after > 1948. An by the way, the cutting surfaces of metal or glass base discs are > cellulose nitrate lacquer, not vinyl or acetate. Michael Biel. > > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> > ________________________________ > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List < > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Ron Roscoe < > [log in to unmask]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:06:08 PM > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized. > > I don’t think the first commercial 45’s ever used a 78 sized groove. Be > hard to get 5 minutes of music on one side of a 45 using the wider 78 > groove. The whole 45 system with changer was ready before WW2 and was held > up because of WW2. Do you know of any examples of 45’s with a regular > small center hole? [9/32”?] > > Ron > > > > From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > Adrian Zeffert > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:45 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [nevec] Rare records need to be digitized. > > > > Hugh: > > My reccolection is that the first 45's had a standard LP hole until the > 'stacker' was invented for automated players. Thats why all record players > of the 60's on up came with the 'Puck' to fit over an LP spindle for the > revised 45. I don't know if the first 45's used a 78 needle but it is > possible, until the BiRadial Saphire or Diamond needles were born. > > Hope other NEVECer's have other thoughts. > > I have many 78's and LP's. Cannot find my collection of 45's, probably > lost in one of 5 moves! > > If anyone interested I have about 12, 7" reel tapes used by TWA for music > entertainment on their aircraft. Have to wait for better weather to get > them out of my shed. Last time i played one on my 7" deck, about 5 years > ago the quality was excellent. > > > > Adrian > > AB2IX > > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 10:58 Hugh Vartanian <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Hi group, > I have these 5 one-of-a-kind records from my 80-odd year old friend with > some folk music she made with other people in the mid-50's, probably in > Greenwich Village NYC. She asked me to help rip them to digital, some kind > of archiving project she is involved in to save these recordings. > > I ultrasonically cleaned them last night, that appeared to go OK. 2 of > them are the same, 12" 33-1/3, with aluminum discs inside the vinyl (one > has a slight chip). These play somewhat OK on my turntable although it > sounds like there is still a bunch of dirt in the grooves. > > The other 3 are all different, 7" discs, either 45 or 78, I can't quite > tell. The turntable I am using only does 45 and 33. They have a 9/32 > hole, not a 45 hole. (were there any 45's that had a small hole? this > would be a hint). > > With the LP stylus on my turntable, the sound is almost inaudible and the > tracking of the needle makes a noticeable stripe in reflected light on the > record surface. AGGGGAAAHH, needle-less(!) to say, I stopped immediately. > Is it possible that these may just need a 78-sized stylus? I do have a > couple of turntables that do 78, but they will need some TLC (a miracord > and an older garrard, iirc). While I am up for trying that, I would be > interested if anyone know someone that specializes in such efforts. I'm > glad to pay for the help, should the 78 turntable resurrection doesn't work > out. I may try the audio place in Harvard square (if they are still > around). > > Thanks! > Hugh > > _._,_._,_ > > _____ > > Groups.io Links: > > You receive all messages sent to this group. > > View/Reply Online (#6340) <https://nevec.groups.io/g/main/message/6340> > | Reply To Group <mailto:[log in to unmask]:%20Re%3A%20%5Bnevec%5D%20Rare%20records%20need%20to%20be%20digitized.> > | Reply To Sender <mailto:[log in to unmask]:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bnevec%5D%20Rare%20records%20need%20to%20be%20digitized.> > | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/80681229/2181603> | New Topic < > https://nevec.groups.io/g/main/post> > Your Subscription <https://nevec.groups.io/g/main/editsub/2181603> | > Contact Group Owner <mailto:[log in to unmask]> | Unsubscribe < > https://nevec.groups.io/g/main/leave/6743595/776971353/xyzzy> [ > [log in to unmask]] > > _._,_._,_ > -- cell and text# 510-717-5240 www.JAZZHOTBigstep.com