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There is no need for the public to know this, is there?

I know of no library catalog that will fail to turn up results whether the name was entered in inverted order or not. The public would have needed to know this in the days of the card catalog, but no longer.

And if we use what the public knows as the standard, then I guess we would have to start entering Icelandic names as if patronymics are surnames, even though they aren’t, because that’s how the American public reads them. If we start with that, we’re getting pretty close to the point of cultural erasure from which we’ve only recently extricated ourselves.

Librarians would need to know the rules, and have patience with explaining the rules to other librarians, as I had to do at least three times a week with Icelandic, Turkish, and Hungarian names when I worked in a large public system. But people are going to be able to find things in the catalog whether the name is direct order or not.


Preston Salisbury
Assistant Professor and Monographic Cataloger
Mississippi State University
662.325.4618
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of John Lavalie
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] middle names as last names

>In the cases of Jon Stewart and Alison Brie, they are using their middle names as de facto surnames. In other words, they would be referred to as Mr. Stewart and Ms. Brie.
Rose Marie actually started her career as “Baby Rose Marie” which definitely implies that Marie is a middle name, rather than a surname. Tina Louise never (to my understanding) had Louise as a part of her legal name, and Tina Louise was a persona or stage name. I’m unsure if she ever would have been Ms. Louise.

How do we expect the public to know this?


100 1  John, Elton
670    The many lives of Elton John, 1992: ǂb CIP galley (b. Reginald Kenneth Dwight; professionally known as Elton John)

Neither name looks like a last name.



Preston Salisbury
Assistant Professor and Monographic Cataloger
Mississippi State University
662.325.4618
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Young, William C
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 1:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] middle names as last names

I see in the first two examples the first indicator is a 0 instead of a 1 … perhaps that is supposed to tell the cataloger that this is not a surname, but instead a compound given-name.


  *   Hank

William C. (Hank) Young
Serials Coordinator
University of Florida
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of John Lavalie
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 2:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [PCCLIST] middle names as last names

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Sometimes we file people under their first name when they are using their middle name as a last name:

100 0  Tina Louise, ǂd 1934-
670    Halliwell's filmgoer's comp., 1988 ǂb (Louise, Tina; b. 1934; AKA Tina Blacker; actress)

100 0  Rose Marie, ǂd 1923-2017
670    Internet movie database WWW site, April 13, 2004 ǂb (Rose Marie, aka Rose Marie Mazetta, aka Baby Rose Marie; b. Aug. 15, 1923, New York, N.Y.)


And sometimes we don't:

100 1  Stewart, Jon, ǂd 1962-
670    IMDb, Apr. 16, 1998 ǂb (Jon Stewart, b. Jonathan Stewart Leibowitz, Nov. 28, 1962; actor)

100 1  Brie, Alison
670    Wikipedia ǂb (Alison Brie Schermerhorn (born December 29, 1982) is an American actress)


I suspect it's a case of whether we knew their real names at the time.  Going forward, and preferably going back, can we have some consistency?  While the first two examples are technically correct, their real names are more trivia than helpful navigation.


JOHN LAVALIE
Metadata and Cataloging Specialist
Des Plaines Public Library | dppl.org
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