I was deprived of my magic powers over the LCNAF when I retired recently,
but in any case where I was not absolutely sure about the case endings
(in Romanian, for instance) I made unapologetic use of the option
to code the heading as provisional, confident that some colleague
with a better grasp of the language would re-code it, if it was correct,
or correct it, if it was not in the nominative.
Christopher H. Walker
Associate Librarian Emeritus
The Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802
Email address use either
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________________________________
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Adams, Anne <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2021 10:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] [External] Re: Corporate name access points
Not to get too far off from the OP, but I do wonder about keeping the "n" in the Busch example. That is the weak ending that exists only when there is a definite article there. Without the definite article it makes no sense and should be removed, no? Otherwise it's a grammatically incorrect name...
Anne Adams
Senior Music Cataloger
Eda Kuhn Loeb Music Library
Harvard University
Anne Adams
Senior Music Cataloger
Eda Kuhn Loeb Music Library
Harvard University
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Barron, Lucy A <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:51:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] [External] Re: Corporate name access points
Perhaps this is stretching my grammatical memory horizons, but I’m not sure this is quite the same. Both are actually nominative case but one is a definite form (with the article) and one is an indefinite form. A German speaker would readily recognize the definite ending “-en” in Deutschen and understand that there is a missing article:
[The] German U-boat commanders
Which has a slightly different meaning than the indefinite form
German U-boat commanders
That ability is lost in English, unless the reader knows for a fact that there is a missing article.
Lucy A. Barron
Head, Scandinavia, Baltic, & Central Germanic Section
Germanic & Slavic Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave., SE
Washington, DC 20540-4244
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Stephen Hearn
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] [External] Re: Corporate name access points
The official RDA Guidance section on Nomens and Appellations says, "A nomen associates a string with an RDA entity on the basis of cultural or linguistic conventions for naming and referencing an entity." Given the shift of responsibility for creating rules for string encoding schemes from RSC to the RDA communities, I'd guess that's as close as RSC wants to get to handling case ending issues for nomen strings.
The stickiest issue I can recall of this type is what to do when an initial article carries case or gender information and the word that follows doesn't, particularly in a title. For example, Rainer Busch's title "Die deutschen U-boot-Kommandanten" becomes "Busch, Rainer. Deutschen U-Boot-Kommandenten" in a title AAP. rather than "Deutsche U-Boot-Kommandenten", which would be a simple nominative naming. In such cases, the initial article dropping convention trumps the nominative naming convention.
Stephen
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 3:39 PM Richard Amelung <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Corporate headings are established in the nominative.
As for the use of ellipses to indicate that the name is being taken from the middle of a sentence, I've never heard that. Nor have I ever done that. It may be a local
practice that found its way into the category of "That's how we do things here".
I think that it is commonly understood that the 670 will show whichever inflected form one finds.
The access point, however, will be in the nominative.
RCA
Richard C. Amelung, Ph. D., M.A.L.S.
Professor Emeritus of Legal Research
Vincent C. Immel Law Library
Saint Louis University School of Law
100 N. Tucker Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63101-1930
Phone: 314.977.2743
Fax: 314.977.3966
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Barron, Lucy A <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 3:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: [External] Re: Corporate name access points
Although I can’t point to relevant documentation, I was always taught (back in the 80’s and at Harvard) that a heading should be in the nominative case if it were known by the cataloger. The 670 does not need to show an example of the nominative case, I guess because it’s assumed to be unnecessary. But the use of ellipses ( … ) when citing the heading is supposed to show that the heading is taken from elsewhere in the sentence within the source and may not be in the nominative case—I don’t know if this is done routinely. Additionally, I have this hazy recollection that may not be true that if it is known by the cataloger to be in a case other than nominative, it can be established as provisional and explained in a cataloger’s note.
No German cataloger would establish the heading in the genitive and I think that’s important to note.
Lucy A. Barron
Head, Scandinavia, Baltic, & Central Germanic Section
Germanic & Slavic Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave., SE
Washington, DC 20540-4244
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From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Robert J. Rendall
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 3:38 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Corporate name access points
I think the idea that access points should be grammatically correct phrases that make sense in isolation is seen as a basic principle that can be taken for granted, though I'm not sure what exactly in the current text of RDA supports that assumption. ALA submitted a proposal to address this sort of issue explicitly in 2014, and the JSC (now RSC) did not accept it - I think their response said it was "not needed."
Relevant documentation used to be here, but the links no longer work:
http://www.rda-rsc.org/6JSC/ALA/35<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2Fwww.rda-rsc.org%2F6JSC%2FALA%2F35__%3B!!K543PA!chZlZFs6r8rjMAlV9kIRm-35BigWuJxwRS8FT7bg1QyYUAZXv-dKnZFIa3_TAUBwFe6O%24&data=04%7C01%7Cchw16%40PSU.EDU%7Cb5ce78bfd9214071baf408d99c7b2cdf%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637712875124284743%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=IRvT%2FdmKwJ%2F%2FAicsZK%2BgfnmZLusxIgU8aBZun14jZNo%3D&reserved=0>
An earlier draft of the original ALA proposal is still viewable here; it would probably have needed more work and I can see why we might want to avoid getting into this kind of thing in the text of RDA, if possible:
https://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/KPG201406rev.pdf<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2Falcts.ala.org%2Fccdablog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FKPG201406rev.pdf__%3B!!K543PA!chZlZFs6r8rjMAlV9kIRm-35BigWuJxwRS8FT7bg1QyYUAZXv-dKnZFIa3_TAUW1ATbK%24&data=04%7C01%7Cchw16%40PSU.EDU%7Cb5ce78bfd9214071baf408d99c7b2cdf%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637712875124294700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=CZjEHVL3H0xnLWVQlLVQ%2BUmHKvaXmaEvZCBSoUnjPcA%3D&reserved=0>
Robert Rendall
Principal Serials Cataloger
Original and Special Materials Cataloging, Columbia University Libraries
102 Butler Library, 535 West 114th Street, New York, NY 10027
tel.: 212 851 2449 fax: 212 854 5167
C.V. Starr East Asian Library, Columbia University Libraries
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On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 3:17 PM Hostage, John <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Is it possible that someone could misinterpret RDA such that they would change a properly established name in the nominative case to one in a version of the genitive case, based on what was found on the source, as was done in 2019, when Internationales Eriugena-Colloquium was changed to Internationalen Eriugena-Colloquium (they left off the genitive “s” at the end)?
I don’t think our rules have ever specified that names are established in the nominative case, probably because it’s such a bedrock principle that it didn’t need to be said. There are a few other headings in the NAF that are not in the nominative, but this is the first time I’ve seen one changed away from the nominative.
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