Mail*Link(r) SMTP               RE>>IE5.0 - XML sans plugin

Michael is certainly correct in advocating a more orderly approach.  Using the
application guidelines is certainly the best way to go.

As for validation, IE5 is certainly looking at the dtd.  I had to make the
edits to the dtd files as indicated in my original message because of error
messages I was getting (actually they were informative error messages I might
add).  It wouldn't crash until I edited the dtd files.  It should, one would
think, give me a validation error.  I guess we are to assume the parser in the
non-beta version is a non-validating one, or perhaps not a strict one.  (Where
are the parser/validation experts?)  Indeed, I was able to serve up the same
files without the DOCTYPE tag and it did not look for the dtd.

W. Paul Kiel
Interim Head
NCSU Libraries Special Collections
Box 7111
North Carolina State University
Raleigh, NC  27695-7111
voice: 919.515.8119
fax: 919.515.3628
Internet: [log in to unmask]

Date: 3/24/99 12:52 PM
To: Kiel, Paul
From: Encoded Archival Description L

> Being able to serve up directly to the
> browser was the fulfillment of the promise for so long.

Indeed. Congratulations on getting it out there!

Your example does raises a question in my mind, however, but part of
the problem may be a misunderstanding on my part!

>  Finally, I must admit to some sloppiness.  I used the
> EAD1.0 dtd with beta documents

In this case, I'm a bit confused as to what is going on here.

In my experience of using the beta test version of IE5, if one
pointed an XML document at a DTD (which isn't mandatory in XML - you
can send a "well-formed" doc with no DOCTYPE statement and therefore
no DTD) then the XML parser in IE5 validated the document against the
DTD and produced an error message if it failed to validate. i.e. it
didn't get as far as producing the "built-in stylesheet" display
which you describe.

Now then, in your case, there is a DOCTYPE and a DTD, but we know
that the (EAD beta conforming) document is _invalid_ as far as the
supplied (version 1.0) DTD is concerned (e.g. the document contains a
<FINDAID> element, and there is markup in a mixture of upper and
lower case - XML is case-sensitive.)

So I rather expected IE5 (I'm now using the new release 5.0 proper)
to choke... but no! I've just tried it and up comes the built-in
styled display with no validation errors.

This implies to me that IE5 is not validating the document against
the DTD... which firstly suggests that the document could equally
well be sent as a well-formed document (without DOCTYPE etc)

But the real question which occurs to me, I suppose,  is_why_ IE5 is
not validating and I can't see the answer to that immediately.

Am I wrong in expecting IE5 to look for the DTD and then validate
the document on the client side? I've got used to seeing IE5 validate
but that has been primarily with documents from my local disk and
this has set me wondering whether I have ever seen it validate a
document from a remote server.


Pete Johnston (Effective Records Management Project)
Archives & Business Records Centre
University of Glasgow
77-87 Dumbarton Road
Glasgow G11 6PW   E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
Scotland, U.K.    URL:

Tel:  (UK) 0141 339 8855 ext. 2166 or (UK) 0141-330-4159
Fax:  (UK) 0141-330-4158

------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
Received: by with ADMIN;24 Mar 1999 12:46:15 -0500
Received: from rs8 ( [])
          by (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP
          id MAA141892; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:30:46 -0500
Received: from RS8.LOC.GOV by RS8.LOC.GOV (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with
          spool id 39577 for [log in to unmask]; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:30:36 -0500
Received: from (
          []) by (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id
          for <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:29:57 -0500
Received: from ( []) by
 (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA03376 for
          <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:30:28 GMT
Received: from ARTS6/SpoolDir by (Mercury 1.40); 24 Mar
          17:29:36 +0001
Received: from SpoolDir by ARTS6 (Mercury 1.40); 24 Mar 99 17:29:33 +0001
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54)
Message-ID:  <[log in to unmask]>
Date:         Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:29:26 GMT
Reply-To: Encoded Archival Description List <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Encoded Archival Description List <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pete Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Glasgow University
Subject:      Re: IE5.0 - XML sans plugin
To: Multiple recipients of list EAD <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  <[log in to unmask]>